Larry Laverty
Larry Laverty is an American actor with a unique history. On his way to a high-powered career in the corporate world, he took over the plane and bailed out. After working eight years to achieve two college degrees, he gave acting a try. Hestarted out doing plays and musicals at Oakland's Woodminster Theater while goingback to school to study the nuts and bolts of acting. He studied at San Francisco'sAmerican Conservatory Theater and The Jean Shelton Actors Studio as well as in Los Angeles with the renowned Improv groups The Groundlings and Second City. At this same time, he trained as an Olympic hopeful in the sport of speed skating, spending 11 years in the process, living and training in Canada and Milwaukee, Wisconsin. This complete, and his bank account wiped out, he set out to become established in Hollywood.
While living in a rundown residential motel and getting to appointments by walking and city bus, he slowly but surely began working in television. But the experience was unfulfilling and after five years, he pulled out of Los Angeles and began his now legendary quest to work in independent films. To date, Larry's appeared in over 100 films, films produced in every corner of the country, including "The Fourth War" directed by the renowned John Frankenheimer and the top film at Cannes in 2003"Elephant' directed by Gus Van Sant. Always following his heart, Larry has reconsidered television and big-budget movies and is now in the process of rebuilding his career in mainstream Hollywood.
SK: I see your father was an engineer and your mother a bookkeeper. Why the interest
in becoming an actor?
LL: Out of the gate, I had no clear career in mind when I started college. The last thing I would've told you was that I was going to become an actor. Ha! That would've been a joke. But it all revealed itself and evolved without any particular thought at all. I paid my own way through college by working a variety of jobs. I'd take a job doing something interesting to me at the time, master it, and then move on to another interesting job somewhere else. Those work experiences it turns out were far more valuable than the stuff I studied over the course of 8 years for my two degrees. Once I dabbled in acting for the heck of it, it dawned on me that through acting I could continue to experience more vocations in life and explore what it's all about to be human.
SK: I understand your denial to U.C. Berkeley was a blessing in disguise?
LL: Well, it was a mixed blessing. I went back for the second degree because my light bulb finally went on. I got in touch with the vocational things in life that meant the most to me. By then I knew that the corporate world wasn't it, and I knew that I cared a lot about animals and the environment so I studied public policy in those areas. Next I applied to this highly exclusive, big shot graduate school at Berkeley, just sure I had all the top grades and scores and experience to get in. But no. Looking back, I'm not sure why I held admission there as the one and only next step on that career path but I did. And at the same time, for better or worse, I was feeling more and more estranged from the human herd. Now disenchanted by forging careers in both the private and public sector, I had my ah-ha! moment and proceeded to devote my career to acting.
SK: From Shakespeare and Broadway Musicals to Horror films, what an interesting transition. How did your role in "Deadlock" come about?
LL: "Deadlock" was an indie action film with a nice little budget and it was my first movie. I was backstage one day during rehearsals for a show at Oakland's Woodminster Theater when I heard two guys talking about a movie audition they were going to hit the next day. By this point, I'd done several plays and musicals and for some reason I thought I had to try working in a movie. So I asked them for the details, went, and landed a sweet, supporting role. That was it. I stopped doing Theater and focused on working in movies.
SK: You frequently play 'crazy people.' Is portraying unbalanced people a good way to show off your acting chops, your more serious side?
LL: I love crazy people. It's the conventional, serious people that worry me the most. For the first half of my career, I tended to play conventional characters: dads, corporate guys, doctors, cops, lawyers. As my agent in Chicago told me at the time, "You're lucky to have this Everyman kind of look and personality because every movie's got those guys in it." And he was right. I worked a lot. But as I studied acting more and more and became a better actor, these conventional roles became less challenging as these types of characters are rarely complex or well written. To continue growing as an artist and feel challenged, I sought out the crazy-guy roles and hit my stride. Now, I go back and forth between playing crazies and conventional fellas, generally infusing the conventional dudes with more complexity whether it's written in the script or not.
SK: Was the time you spent in the small town in Idaho good reference material for your more heartfelt roles?
LL: I grew up through my childhood spending time each year on the family farm in Idaho. Even here in Oakland and just outside of Oakland, I had relatives who were horse people and cut from a gentler cloth. So along with my parent's heartfelt nature, this apple didn't fall far from the tree, and being heartfelt is simply what I am. What I most certainly took away with me from my connection to Idaho is an understanding of rural America, small-town thinking. So when I play those characters who spend their lives in a town with 500 people in it, I know what that's about. I've lived it.
SK: What was it like acting opposite Rutger Hauer in "Dead Tone?"
LL: Who's Rutger Hauer? I'm sure there are folks out there who'll say that. It's just how life goes. But 30 years ago, a little sci-fi movie called Blade Runner came out and it's success put a Dutch actor named Hauer up near the top of the charts in Hollywood and I for one took note. When I reported for work on "Dead Tone" I found the base camp OK but there was no sign of any crew, just a collection of half a dozen Teamsters hanging out underneath a tent out of the noon-day sun. I pulled up a seat and shot the breeze with them for twenty minutes. About ten minutes in, I started thinking, hey, one of these guys looks familiar. Yes indeedy. Here was Rutger Hauer looking as non-descript as could be, hanging out with the Teamsters with me. Like most older celebrity actors I've been around, my appreciation of them is not so much rooted in their acting but in the extensive collection of stories they've collected on the behind-the-scenes of Hollywood. Rutger held court and shared many a good campfire story.
SK: Being a versatile actor, what would you say has been your favorite role to date?
LL: That's just the hardest question anybody could possibly ask. After working in over 100 films, I have a number of sentimental favorites, each for different reasons. Pushed into a corner, I'd say that what I did in Joe Hollow's "Cut" makes me the most proud. It's a role that let me go to all sorts of places emotionally and with abandon. While the film's chalk full of power-hitting actors, my character is more of a vulnerable sort, sensitive, and traumatized by life's events. I loved that character.
SK: Somehow I see you being the perfect antagonist for a David Lynch film. What do you think?
LL: I'd sign up for that in a heart beat. But David's been cooling his jets in recent years and so the likelihood of working with him is increasingly slim. I admire the guy a bunch though. I feel he's a kindred spirit in some ways as he's from Montana and I have a number of connections there; and, he's an Eagle Scout as am I. Also, he's not into trotting along with the rest of the ponies in the herd which speaks volumes to me. I love his take on European film style, style that's often crazy-surreal and more offbeat than the average bear can stand.
SK: You strike me as a very grounded and traditional type of guy, despite your crazy roles. I am sure that is hard to find within the film industry these days. Does it make you feel like an outcast at times, or are you happy just the way you are?
LL: I'm happy just the way I am, an outcast at times. Acting is one tough business to call a career. So from that standpoint, I feel a great affinity for my brothers and sisters who are out there just like I am, fighting to keep their acting careers moving forward. Having come to acting on an entirely different path than everyone else I know though does tend to bring a little separation. When I'm out on a movie set working, I actually prefer hanging out with the crew guys as they tend to be grounded in many of the same ways as I am. And to cover my base here, I believe there's a little something in all good actors that can make one feel like an outcast from society. That's certainly OK by me as I'm pretty turned off by a lot of things that people do.
SK: Has taking over the director's chair on a major film project ever crossed your mind?
LL: Having worked a number of days on one of Clint Eastwood's sets, there's a certain bunch of sensibilities that directors who have experience as actors bring to their job that I appreciate. While my mind is geared in much the same way as Clint's, I prefer making art in front of the camera instead of from behind.
SK: Any film projects in the pipeline right now?
LL: Always. I'm currently waiting for the financial green light for a crime drama called 'Possession' that will be shooting back in Pennsylvania. The same situation holds for a road-trip comedy called 'Route 66 Experience' that's spearheaded out of Tulsa, Oklahoma. And, with each passing day, I get closer to working in the Spring of next year on a sci-fi comedy called "Green Star Liner" with my friend Dermot Tynan over in Ireland.
SK: Any last words?
LL: When I was a kid growing up here in Oakland, there was one fine Tv show called "Creature Features" that aired on the weekends featuring all the great Horror and Sci Fi films ever made. I loved that show. It blows my mind today to realize that in addition to all the network Tv I've been a part of and the many mainstream movies too, I've also taken part in a good collection of movies that would air on "Creature Features" if it were still with us today. I miss guys like that show's host Bob Wilkins, and I miss actors like Vincent Price. But I'm extremely grateful to be having my little day in the sun in the industry that those two gentlemen and others like them dedicated their lives to.
While living in a rundown residential motel and getting to appointments by walking and city bus, he slowly but surely began working in television. But the experience was unfulfilling and after five years, he pulled out of Los Angeles and began his now legendary quest to work in independent films. To date, Larry's appeared in over 100 films, films produced in every corner of the country, including "The Fourth War" directed by the renowned John Frankenheimer and the top film at Cannes in 2003"Elephant' directed by Gus Van Sant. Always following his heart, Larry has reconsidered television and big-budget movies and is now in the process of rebuilding his career in mainstream Hollywood.
SK: I see your father was an engineer and your mother a bookkeeper. Why the interest
in becoming an actor?
LL: Out of the gate, I had no clear career in mind when I started college. The last thing I would've told you was that I was going to become an actor. Ha! That would've been a joke. But it all revealed itself and evolved without any particular thought at all. I paid my own way through college by working a variety of jobs. I'd take a job doing something interesting to me at the time, master it, and then move on to another interesting job somewhere else. Those work experiences it turns out were far more valuable than the stuff I studied over the course of 8 years for my two degrees. Once I dabbled in acting for the heck of it, it dawned on me that through acting I could continue to experience more vocations in life and explore what it's all about to be human.
SK: I understand your denial to U.C. Berkeley was a blessing in disguise?
LL: Well, it was a mixed blessing. I went back for the second degree because my light bulb finally went on. I got in touch with the vocational things in life that meant the most to me. By then I knew that the corporate world wasn't it, and I knew that I cared a lot about animals and the environment so I studied public policy in those areas. Next I applied to this highly exclusive, big shot graduate school at Berkeley, just sure I had all the top grades and scores and experience to get in. But no. Looking back, I'm not sure why I held admission there as the one and only next step on that career path but I did. And at the same time, for better or worse, I was feeling more and more estranged from the human herd. Now disenchanted by forging careers in both the private and public sector, I had my ah-ha! moment and proceeded to devote my career to acting.
SK: From Shakespeare and Broadway Musicals to Horror films, what an interesting transition. How did your role in "Deadlock" come about?
LL: "Deadlock" was an indie action film with a nice little budget and it was my first movie. I was backstage one day during rehearsals for a show at Oakland's Woodminster Theater when I heard two guys talking about a movie audition they were going to hit the next day. By this point, I'd done several plays and musicals and for some reason I thought I had to try working in a movie. So I asked them for the details, went, and landed a sweet, supporting role. That was it. I stopped doing Theater and focused on working in movies.
SK: You frequently play 'crazy people.' Is portraying unbalanced people a good way to show off your acting chops, your more serious side?
LL: I love crazy people. It's the conventional, serious people that worry me the most. For the first half of my career, I tended to play conventional characters: dads, corporate guys, doctors, cops, lawyers. As my agent in Chicago told me at the time, "You're lucky to have this Everyman kind of look and personality because every movie's got those guys in it." And he was right. I worked a lot. But as I studied acting more and more and became a better actor, these conventional roles became less challenging as these types of characters are rarely complex or well written. To continue growing as an artist and feel challenged, I sought out the crazy-guy roles and hit my stride. Now, I go back and forth between playing crazies and conventional fellas, generally infusing the conventional dudes with more complexity whether it's written in the script or not.
SK: Was the time you spent in the small town in Idaho good reference material for your more heartfelt roles?
LL: I grew up through my childhood spending time each year on the family farm in Idaho. Even here in Oakland and just outside of Oakland, I had relatives who were horse people and cut from a gentler cloth. So along with my parent's heartfelt nature, this apple didn't fall far from the tree, and being heartfelt is simply what I am. What I most certainly took away with me from my connection to Idaho is an understanding of rural America, small-town thinking. So when I play those characters who spend their lives in a town with 500 people in it, I know what that's about. I've lived it.
SK: What was it like acting opposite Rutger Hauer in "Dead Tone?"
LL: Who's Rutger Hauer? I'm sure there are folks out there who'll say that. It's just how life goes. But 30 years ago, a little sci-fi movie called Blade Runner came out and it's success put a Dutch actor named Hauer up near the top of the charts in Hollywood and I for one took note. When I reported for work on "Dead Tone" I found the base camp OK but there was no sign of any crew, just a collection of half a dozen Teamsters hanging out underneath a tent out of the noon-day sun. I pulled up a seat and shot the breeze with them for twenty minutes. About ten minutes in, I started thinking, hey, one of these guys looks familiar. Yes indeedy. Here was Rutger Hauer looking as non-descript as could be, hanging out with the Teamsters with me. Like most older celebrity actors I've been around, my appreciation of them is not so much rooted in their acting but in the extensive collection of stories they've collected on the behind-the-scenes of Hollywood. Rutger held court and shared many a good campfire story.
SK: Being a versatile actor, what would you say has been your favorite role to date?
LL: That's just the hardest question anybody could possibly ask. After working in over 100 films, I have a number of sentimental favorites, each for different reasons. Pushed into a corner, I'd say that what I did in Joe Hollow's "Cut" makes me the most proud. It's a role that let me go to all sorts of places emotionally and with abandon. While the film's chalk full of power-hitting actors, my character is more of a vulnerable sort, sensitive, and traumatized by life's events. I loved that character.
SK: Somehow I see you being the perfect antagonist for a David Lynch film. What do you think?
LL: I'd sign up for that in a heart beat. But David's been cooling his jets in recent years and so the likelihood of working with him is increasingly slim. I admire the guy a bunch though. I feel he's a kindred spirit in some ways as he's from Montana and I have a number of connections there; and, he's an Eagle Scout as am I. Also, he's not into trotting along with the rest of the ponies in the herd which speaks volumes to me. I love his take on European film style, style that's often crazy-surreal and more offbeat than the average bear can stand.
SK: You strike me as a very grounded and traditional type of guy, despite your crazy roles. I am sure that is hard to find within the film industry these days. Does it make you feel like an outcast at times, or are you happy just the way you are?
LL: I'm happy just the way I am, an outcast at times. Acting is one tough business to call a career. So from that standpoint, I feel a great affinity for my brothers and sisters who are out there just like I am, fighting to keep their acting careers moving forward. Having come to acting on an entirely different path than everyone else I know though does tend to bring a little separation. When I'm out on a movie set working, I actually prefer hanging out with the crew guys as they tend to be grounded in many of the same ways as I am. And to cover my base here, I believe there's a little something in all good actors that can make one feel like an outcast from society. That's certainly OK by me as I'm pretty turned off by a lot of things that people do.
SK: Has taking over the director's chair on a major film project ever crossed your mind?
LL: Having worked a number of days on one of Clint Eastwood's sets, there's a certain bunch of sensibilities that directors who have experience as actors bring to their job that I appreciate. While my mind is geared in much the same way as Clint's, I prefer making art in front of the camera instead of from behind.
SK: Any film projects in the pipeline right now?
LL: Always. I'm currently waiting for the financial green light for a crime drama called 'Possession' that will be shooting back in Pennsylvania. The same situation holds for a road-trip comedy called 'Route 66 Experience' that's spearheaded out of Tulsa, Oklahoma. And, with each passing day, I get closer to working in the Spring of next year on a sci-fi comedy called "Green Star Liner" with my friend Dermot Tynan over in Ireland.
SK: Any last words?
LL: When I was a kid growing up here in Oakland, there was one fine Tv show called "Creature Features" that aired on the weekends featuring all the great Horror and Sci Fi films ever made. I loved that show. It blows my mind today to realize that in addition to all the network Tv I've been a part of and the many mainstream movies too, I've also taken part in a good collection of movies that would air on "Creature Features" if it were still with us today. I miss guys like that show's host Bob Wilkins, and I miss actors like Vincent Price. But I'm extremely grateful to be having my little day in the sun in the industry that those two gentlemen and others like them dedicated their lives to.
Judy Cerda is a talented actress who has starred in many horror and thriller films including Telezombie, Invocation, Expect Murder, Spyware, Mom Gone Wild, Real Interview with a Vampire, Priest’s Calling, Chronicles of the Order, and The Forbidden Island, to name a few. She has starred in Scifi and comedy films as well. She began acting in the theatre as a teenager and dancing in performing groups, then moved on to films, TV shows, and commercials. Her most recent films are The Midas Vision, The Bench, Boxed Up, The Anagram, and A Giant Monster Tale.
~*~
You told me once that you enjoyed watching The Brady Bunch growing up, but you ended up working within the horror genre. Wasn’t that quite a transition?
Yes, there is a difference but I started off doing plays and musicals which were family oriented for several years before I got into film. I didn't start off with the horror genre; I did other types of movies first and then just happened to land some roles in some good horror films.
Did you develop a fascination for becoming an actress because of anything particular that happened in your childhood?
No, I just watched TV and could picture myself in certain roles and knew that this is what I was meant to do. I would act out scenes from stories I had written on my tape recorder and got the neighborhood kids involved too. I had a great imagination and was fascinated by commercials and TV shows. When my parents took me to the movies, it was usually to see a horror film and I found them to be exciting.
Any particular actresses that were an influence on your career? Any certain Scream Queens?
As mentioned before, I enjoyed The Brady Bunch show as well as Lost in Space and found the actresses on there to be interesting and beautiful, and knew I wanted to do what they do. I also loved Scifi TV shows and movies. I found myself writing stories for both TV shows and acting them out during my play time. There wasn't any particular scream queen I admired but I loved the exhilaration of the screaming and running that they all did.
You are apparently not too much impressed with the quality of the more “major” motion pictures around today. Have you found that the independent films are better?
There have actually been some great major motion pictures movies released recently. For a while, it seemed that there was too much predictability in the movies and name actors in the same similar types of plots. Now, there seems to be more originality in them and different actors appearing in the leads. I do feel that independent films do still have the upper hand on originality though as their stories do not mimic one another. Too many major motion picture movies mimic one another and the story becomes a predictable plot that we have all seen too many times. But it looks like that is changing lately. I also think that independent films are becoming more adept at their special effects and coming across as more high budget than they actually are.
How about indie horror in general? Some think that the digital age has brought about too many low quality horror films.
No, I don't think so. The special effects and the digital effects are improving their quality and making them seem more mainstream with the motion pictures. It also allows horror actresses to get less messy and remain intact which is always a good thing. Independent films do need to compete with major motion picture movies for screen time and recognition so they do definitely need to incorporate digital effects in their movies to be in the running.
Does more originality and thought go into indie films?
Yes, it does. Independent directors seem to have more original ideas and are not seeking a token type of person in each film or incorporating the same characters over and over as some major motion picture movies do. They are not afraid to take risks and do something different because not as much money has been invested. Their writing appears to be more creative and they cast actresses of different types instead of just the same type that you see in every horror film.
Let’s talk women in horror; do you honestly believe there is a place for more “Scream Queens” with each new generation of actresses?
I think there always will be. Horror films are very popular and it seems that the more horrific they are, the more the movies sell out. People seem to like to see others having tragedy as it takes them away from their own mundane lives and makes their problems seem less significant. They are also entertaining and make the audience feel more involved and connected.
Let’s talk about the anatomy of a Scream Queen; what is a Scream Queen to you?
It's an actress who appears in horror films as the victim. She is the one who is hiding, running, screaming and often times performing heroic feats to defend herself. She is often the star of the movie but sometimes can be in a supporting role.
Does a Scream Queen differ in definition say from a mainstream horror actress, like Jamie Lee Curtis used to be?
Not really familiar with her work but I see a mainstream horror actress as someone who is the practical one who escapes easily or even the protagonist. The scream queen is the one who does the dramatic acting and is a victim. She has to scream, run and often get bloody and gory for the role. She also has to be able to cry and show real emotions. She is the one who gets the audience involved and rooting for her.
Where do you see women in horror headed in the future? Will they continue to be a driving force in indie horror film?
Definitely. The public likes to see beautiful women in horrific situations and having to defend themselves in unique ways. There will always be horror fans out there waiting to see their favorite actress on the screen.
Do you have any amusing anecdotes from any of your films?
I was recently in a horror film called "A Giant Monster Tale" playing a prostitute who meets with tragedy when she goes home with a serial killer. This was a half day and all night shoot so I was there filming and waiting around for hours. When we shot the scene of me on the street as the hooker in the wee hours of the morning, the police drove by a couple of times wondering what I was doing. I think they would have questioned me if they hadn't finally seen the car pull up with the camera on the roof. This was rather amusing as I thought I would have to explain myself to the police and it was a little uncomfortable before the camera man and director showed up. They left me standing alone on the corner for a little bit as they chose to put the camera on the car and drove from down the street to film me. This was a fantastic movie though and it is online if anyone wants to view it by going into my Face Book or my Google website. The writing was excellent for this film and the directors/editors did a wonderful job. I was really impressed with it. It played recently at the beautiful Cinearts theatre at Santana Row.
Before you go, tell us about any new films you have on your agenda.
I am currently in a feature film in the lead role of Queenie. Queenie is a nurse who experiments and desires to become a doctor. She deals with a strange patient, nightmares and has some gory scenes in it. I think horror fans will really like this movie. We have started filming but have a lot more to do on this movie.
I am also in a Scifi web series called "City of the Giants" playing the lead role of Susan Connors, a TV reporter after a big story. I have already filmed many of my scenes for this movie but have a little more left to do on it. I think this web series will be a hit as it is based on the old TV show "Land of the Giants" which I understand was a very popular show in the past.
Judy Cerda
http://www.imdb.me/judytheactress
https://sites.google.com/site/judycerdatheactress
http://www.modelmayhem.com/JudyCerda
Credits:
2011 The Midas Vision (short) (completed)
Jenny
2011 The Bench (short) (completed)
Sophia Giovonni
2011 Boxed Up (short) (completed)
Pauline
2011 The Anagram (short) (completed)
Dr. Jen
2011 A Giant Monster Tale (short)
Prostitute
2011 Last Counsel (short)
Suzan Klein
2011 I (Almost) Got Away with It (TV series)
Debra Mason
– Got That Tough Girl Look (2011) … Debra Mason
2010/II Me Time (short)
Mother
2010 Tito (short)
Kara
2010 California Tango
Susie Castro
2010 The Sorcerer
Genevieve
2010 Scape
Colony Woman
2010 The Chronicles of the Order: Bloodline (short)
Jennifer Smith
2010 The Rookie (video short)
Police Detective
2010 The Forbidden Island (short)
Lucy
2009 Spyware
Karen Carter
2009 Invocation (short)
Leasing Agent
2008 The Snake
Ugly Town Woman 2
2008 ChainSmoke
Cashier
2007 Undercover History (TV series)
Louisa Stewart
– J. Edgar Hoover (2007) … Louisa Stewart
2007 The Crow: Purgatory 2
Gwen
2006 Millennium Apocalypse (video)
Patty Roebuck
2005 Slapdash
Bonnie
2004 Tele-Zombie
Hairdresser lady
1997 Dancing on Coals (video)
Cindy
~*~
You told me once that you enjoyed watching The Brady Bunch growing up, but you ended up working within the horror genre. Wasn’t that quite a transition?
Yes, there is a difference but I started off doing plays and musicals which were family oriented for several years before I got into film. I didn't start off with the horror genre; I did other types of movies first and then just happened to land some roles in some good horror films.
Did you develop a fascination for becoming an actress because of anything particular that happened in your childhood?
No, I just watched TV and could picture myself in certain roles and knew that this is what I was meant to do. I would act out scenes from stories I had written on my tape recorder and got the neighborhood kids involved too. I had a great imagination and was fascinated by commercials and TV shows. When my parents took me to the movies, it was usually to see a horror film and I found them to be exciting.
Any particular actresses that were an influence on your career? Any certain Scream Queens?
As mentioned before, I enjoyed The Brady Bunch show as well as Lost in Space and found the actresses on there to be interesting and beautiful, and knew I wanted to do what they do. I also loved Scifi TV shows and movies. I found myself writing stories for both TV shows and acting them out during my play time. There wasn't any particular scream queen I admired but I loved the exhilaration of the screaming and running that they all did.
You are apparently not too much impressed with the quality of the more “major” motion pictures around today. Have you found that the independent films are better?
There have actually been some great major motion pictures movies released recently. For a while, it seemed that there was too much predictability in the movies and name actors in the same similar types of plots. Now, there seems to be more originality in them and different actors appearing in the leads. I do feel that independent films do still have the upper hand on originality though as their stories do not mimic one another. Too many major motion picture movies mimic one another and the story becomes a predictable plot that we have all seen too many times. But it looks like that is changing lately. I also think that independent films are becoming more adept at their special effects and coming across as more high budget than they actually are.
How about indie horror in general? Some think that the digital age has brought about too many low quality horror films.
No, I don't think so. The special effects and the digital effects are improving their quality and making them seem more mainstream with the motion pictures. It also allows horror actresses to get less messy and remain intact which is always a good thing. Independent films do need to compete with major motion picture movies for screen time and recognition so they do definitely need to incorporate digital effects in their movies to be in the running.
Does more originality and thought go into indie films?
Yes, it does. Independent directors seem to have more original ideas and are not seeking a token type of person in each film or incorporating the same characters over and over as some major motion picture movies do. They are not afraid to take risks and do something different because not as much money has been invested. Their writing appears to be more creative and they cast actresses of different types instead of just the same type that you see in every horror film.
Let’s talk women in horror; do you honestly believe there is a place for more “Scream Queens” with each new generation of actresses?
I think there always will be. Horror films are very popular and it seems that the more horrific they are, the more the movies sell out. People seem to like to see others having tragedy as it takes them away from their own mundane lives and makes their problems seem less significant. They are also entertaining and make the audience feel more involved and connected.
Let’s talk about the anatomy of a Scream Queen; what is a Scream Queen to you?
It's an actress who appears in horror films as the victim. She is the one who is hiding, running, screaming and often times performing heroic feats to defend herself. She is often the star of the movie but sometimes can be in a supporting role.
Does a Scream Queen differ in definition say from a mainstream horror actress, like Jamie Lee Curtis used to be?
Not really familiar with her work but I see a mainstream horror actress as someone who is the practical one who escapes easily or even the protagonist. The scream queen is the one who does the dramatic acting and is a victim. She has to scream, run and often get bloody and gory for the role. She also has to be able to cry and show real emotions. She is the one who gets the audience involved and rooting for her.
Where do you see women in horror headed in the future? Will they continue to be a driving force in indie horror film?
Definitely. The public likes to see beautiful women in horrific situations and having to defend themselves in unique ways. There will always be horror fans out there waiting to see their favorite actress on the screen.
Do you have any amusing anecdotes from any of your films?
I was recently in a horror film called "A Giant Monster Tale" playing a prostitute who meets with tragedy when she goes home with a serial killer. This was a half day and all night shoot so I was there filming and waiting around for hours. When we shot the scene of me on the street as the hooker in the wee hours of the morning, the police drove by a couple of times wondering what I was doing. I think they would have questioned me if they hadn't finally seen the car pull up with the camera on the roof. This was rather amusing as I thought I would have to explain myself to the police and it was a little uncomfortable before the camera man and director showed up. They left me standing alone on the corner for a little bit as they chose to put the camera on the car and drove from down the street to film me. This was a fantastic movie though and it is online if anyone wants to view it by going into my Face Book or my Google website. The writing was excellent for this film and the directors/editors did a wonderful job. I was really impressed with it. It played recently at the beautiful Cinearts theatre at Santana Row.
Before you go, tell us about any new films you have on your agenda.
I am currently in a feature film in the lead role of Queenie. Queenie is a nurse who experiments and desires to become a doctor. She deals with a strange patient, nightmares and has some gory scenes in it. I think horror fans will really like this movie. We have started filming but have a lot more to do on this movie.
I am also in a Scifi web series called "City of the Giants" playing the lead role of Susan Connors, a TV reporter after a big story. I have already filmed many of my scenes for this movie but have a little more left to do on it. I think this web series will be a hit as it is based on the old TV show "Land of the Giants" which I understand was a very popular show in the past.
Judy Cerda
http://www.imdb.me/judytheactress
https://sites.google.com/site/judycerdatheactress
http://www.modelmayhem.com/JudyCerda
Credits:
2011 The Midas Vision (short) (completed)
Jenny
2011 The Bench (short) (completed)
Sophia Giovonni
2011 Boxed Up (short) (completed)
Pauline
2011 The Anagram (short) (completed)
Dr. Jen
2011 A Giant Monster Tale (short)
Prostitute
2011 Last Counsel (short)
Suzan Klein
2011 I (Almost) Got Away with It (TV series)
Debra Mason
– Got That Tough Girl Look (2011) … Debra Mason
2010/II Me Time (short)
Mother
2010 Tito (short)
Kara
2010 California Tango
Susie Castro
2010 The Sorcerer
Genevieve
2010 Scape
Colony Woman
2010 The Chronicles of the Order: Bloodline (short)
Jennifer Smith
2010 The Rookie (video short)
Police Detective
2010 The Forbidden Island (short)
Lucy
2009 Spyware
Karen Carter
2009 Invocation (short)
Leasing Agent
2008 The Snake
Ugly Town Woman 2
2008 ChainSmoke
Cashier
2007 Undercover History (TV series)
Louisa Stewart
– J. Edgar Hoover (2007) … Louisa Stewart
2007 The Crow: Purgatory 2
Gwen
2006 Millennium Apocalypse (video)
Patty Roebuck
2005 Slapdash
Bonnie
2004 Tele-Zombie
Hairdresser lady
1997 Dancing on Coals (video)
Cindy
Raine Brown
Raine Brown is a classically trained theatre actor who is well versed at playing Shakespeare’s heroines as well as performing modern pieces such as Laura in The Glass Menagerie and Abigail in The Crucible. Most recently, Raine has been focused on her film career, as evidenced by her IMBD resume, working on numerous independent movies. She has starred in films such as Horror, Aunt Rose, Barricade, Satan’s Playground, Beast and 100 Tears. Raine has relished her Scream Queen status and has continued to promote her projects and meet her fans as a reoccurring guest at numerous horror conventions.
Raine continues to work relentlessly on many different projects such as Sculpture, Don’t Look in the Basement, Game Over, and BrainCell all of which she carries the staring roles. Further, Raine has started her own production company called RaineY DaZe Creations, which has had a hand in production of numerous films and most specifically the two yet to be released films called I Heart U, which she is the co-creator and star, and Psycho Street, where she will not only star, but work as a first time director in one of the segments. Raine also recently performed at the 32nd Annual Samuel French Original Off-Off Broadway Festival, and the one act Fish at the NYC Fringe Festival.
***
So…I gather by our email correspondence, you have begun to find certain aspects of the horror genre a little too predictable?
Well I think it depends. That is what is the most frustrating and awesome part of this genre. A horror film can be a horror comedy, a horror thriller, a horror drama, or psychologic film. Even just a straight up slasher flick. It is almost unlimited, the different styles that can be classified as a horror film. Horror is like butter- it's good on everything. And as an actor I really appreciate being able to perform so many different styles of film. It has been a great challenge and also so fun to do.
But the down side to this genre is that too many films take the easy way out. Personally I appreciate a film that has a unique story and well developed characters. That is what interests me the most. But a lot of horror films just depend on the effects to get through the story and don't really worry about if the audience is going to care about these characters or what happens. Now there is a certain place for that but and some people just want a crazy gore-fest at times, but because many are exploitive and rely on really bad acting, horror films as a whole often are put in a lower class of film in the public's mind. I think that is unfair. Just like in any group there are really intriguing and well done ones and also really poor attempts at film making. But in general…just make it interesting. Find a new twist or way inventive way of telling the story. Otherwise, I wonder why your bothering to tell it again in the first place.
With a background like yours, it is understandable why you would tend to feel opinionated, being well-versed in Shakespeare’s work, but, weren’t some scenes in his work easily perceived as “horrific”?
Well I don't know if I am as opinionated as much as I have a lot of experience and know a lot about what I do and am really not a novice with stars in her eyes. That being said, it is awesome that you mentioned this. I have always say that there is a lot that is similar between a Shakespeare play and horror film. Both are often very heightened emotionally and deal with very tragic consequences. I do think my acting training in Shakespeare has made me a better actress in general, but specifically a better actress for the horror genera. The freedom in Shakespeare to be "big" meaning to take the emotions you are encountering to the fullest and not just keep them subtle like the acting of most films, has given me experience to express the multiple dimensions of each emotion. I have had practice riding emotions out to the limit and once you go there, it is always an easier task to pull it back……. I think I sometimes have some difficulty with that. Ha ha. But if as an actor you never get to play with the emotions to the fullest you might be missing something in your work. The horror genre in general not only allows for but often asks for "big" emotions and extremes in people’s reactions since the characters are put into such extreme situations. As with a Shakespearean play, the stakes are high and therefore a lot of intensity has to be present in the reaction to the situation.
Did you pick the horror genre specifically, or did you just sort of fall into it by accident?
I am an actor. I studied all types of films and theatre. I love drama as much as comedy and all in-between. I just happened to get cast in a film called "Horror" as one of my first film roles. From there when I would apply for all jobs, I got called back more often for horror films since I had that on my resume. It just kind of snowballed from there by meeting people on set who do horror films and getting called in for more horror films because I have done them. But I will say that being part of this genre has allowed me to build up a name for myself that I am not sure I would have accomplished as quickly as if I did this one comedy here or another indie film there. The horror fans really follow the films and really want to know more about you and what you’re doing. If they like your work they will continue to look for it and support it. I love them for that.
Why is it you think that the film industry in general seems to be dominated by the male gender?
I do wonder that. I remember thinking on this exact subject when I was following the series "Project Green light" If you remember the one where they were making that horror film. Well in one of the first episodes I remember a scene where there were like 5 executive producers, all men, in a room smoking and drinking and interview the candidates. It just seemed like such a boys club and not that they appeared to be trying to exclude women in general but you know right away that a woman would most likely be at a disadvantage in that situation. Not that she couldn't drink or smoke with them or whatever, but it just was not easy to have a conversation in the same way with the opposite gender. But I am not really sure why that is. I know it started at a time where men were the business people so the best women could do was be one of the actors, but now the world has supposedly opened up more for women. Maybe not as much as we would like to think, but often in the arts women are on a more equal footing with men and the men dealing in the arts tend to be more open to all kinds of differences. But I am not sure. I totally support women being a bigger force in the film industry. This is why I have done some producing and am working on a few scripts that I am in development with. I think women have so many stories to tell in a unique perspective and that voice may not always be the loudest but it can be just as important.
Have you ever felt yourself to be exploited in a film without realizing it at the time that is was the director’s intention to do so all along?
Wow! That would be so horrible, intolerable, and unprofessional. I have heard of that happening, but I have never experienced that. I am very clear with my boundaries and I think maybe that clarity upfront will either prevent them from casting me from the get go if that is their intent, or they know what I will or won't do before hand. When there is an intense scene in a film, one that places the character in a compromising position, I get clarity from the director on how he expects to shoot it and what I will or won't do. If they are professionals they will have no problem tell you how they will shoot the scene and clarifying what it calls for. If they are hiding something, well then it might be a different story.
Will there always be a place for the “nude female victim” in horror films? Why is nudity and sex seem so prevalent in horror films? That’s so Friday the 13th-ish.
I think that seems to be part of the genre, it is so ingrained in the formula. But I also think that things have been evened out a bit. There seems to be almost as much exploitation of men as women especially in the torture type films. Which in a weirdly backwards way, I appreciate. Ha ha. No but seriously, I was not into horror growing up because even though I was too young to have the words for it, I instinctively felt that so many of the films were very misogynistic. That never appealed to me and still doesn't. I like films with a strong female lead that can take care of business. And at this point, I have made a career choice not to do nudity in at least low budget horror films just for that reason. I know … Boo!!! But it is just something that I never got into acting to do, and as a performer who wants to do all types of films and not only horror, I felt it was a clear way to keep myself from falling into being stereotyped as only a horror actor. And to be honest I have lost some roles because of this, but also, the roles that I am being asked to play are very powerful and strong women and I do think that the fact that I don't do nudity has added to that.
That being said, I think horror subjects often deal with our deepest fears and desires. So sex and nudity are such a basic form of interest, so deep in our brains that it automatically brings reactions. Often times the nudity and sex are just for shock or titalation value and again that is also why horror can get a bad name. And for the longest time the most avid fans of horror have been young males and now let’s be honest… what are they interested in???
I think it’s obvious. Would you classify yourself as an introvert or an extrovert?
I would say that I am very much an introvert that is able to function very well as an extrovert when necessary and/or has latent extroverted tendencies.
Do you have a flair for the dramatic? You seem to.
Who?? Me??? What ever made you think that?? Ha ha. Yes. I am always drawn to big and bold and extremes. It interests me and sometime I don't know how to do things if it is not in a big way. But the funny thing is that in my personal life, I like as little drama as possible. I like a secure and comforting environment where I can organize my thoughts and impressions without too much influence of the outside world. But I do have all this passion and emotion that I have to get out, so I am so thankful to have a safe place in a character to put all my energies. Otherwise I might just end up crazy myself like one of my characters!!! Maybe that is why I relate so well! :)
Any new films coming up you’d like to tell us about?
Yes, the ones that have most recently been released are titled Braincell, Sculpture, Psycho Holocaust- all available on amazon. So far in 2012 the films Gallery of Fear and Geek War should be available. And I am currently towards the end of post production of a film called I Heart U.
It is a film that my production co. RaineY DaZe Creations produced along with C.R. productions. I also co-created the story and starred in the film. It was a great experience to have my hand in every part of the production from creation, to on set, to editing. I will soon be experiencing the crazy process of distribution. But I have learned so much about the process of filmmaking during this adventure and I am so proud of the work I did and everyone involved did.
It is a very awesome Dark, horror, comedy. It centers around a married couple who appear to be living the perfect suburban dream. However, each is bored in the marriage and life that they have created, so they revert back to their old habits of serial killing. Neither one knows about their partner's secret life and they unknowingly start to fall for the other one through the news articles that have been written about their alter ego. It really came together and looks so good and is very entertaining.
Any good words of advice for the “aspiring Scream Queen”?
I think it's good to know what you want. If you want to be a Scream Queen in horror movies and have no further aspirations then that, then all you have to do is look good naked and have a convincing scream and fear face. If you want to be an actress who also does horror movies as a Scream Queen, then take classes, learn your craft. Read a lot of literature and psychology to understand classic characters and motivations. Never feel you have to take a role or do anything you don't want just to further your career. Cuz chances are if you are doing something you don't want it won't lead to any place in your career you want to be. And make us scream too!!!!
Please also direct people to my website www.rainebrown.com and my face book http://www.facebook.com/pages/Raine-Brown/200385190029588
Will do!
Raine Brown is a classically trained theatre actor who is well versed at playing Shakespeare’s heroines as well as performing modern pieces such as Laura in The Glass Menagerie and Abigail in The Crucible. Most recently, Raine has been focused on her film career, as evidenced by her IMBD resume, working on numerous independent movies. She has starred in films such as Horror, Aunt Rose, Barricade, Satan’s Playground, Beast and 100 Tears. Raine has relished her Scream Queen status and has continued to promote her projects and meet her fans as a reoccurring guest at numerous horror conventions.
Raine continues to work relentlessly on many different projects such as Sculpture, Don’t Look in the Basement, Game Over, and BrainCell all of which she carries the staring roles. Further, Raine has started her own production company called RaineY DaZe Creations, which has had a hand in production of numerous films and most specifically the two yet to be released films called I Heart U, which she is the co-creator and star, and Psycho Street, where she will not only star, but work as a first time director in one of the segments. Raine also recently performed at the 32nd Annual Samuel French Original Off-Off Broadway Festival, and the one act Fish at the NYC Fringe Festival.
***
So…I gather by our email correspondence, you have begun to find certain aspects of the horror genre a little too predictable?
Well I think it depends. That is what is the most frustrating and awesome part of this genre. A horror film can be a horror comedy, a horror thriller, a horror drama, or psychologic film. Even just a straight up slasher flick. It is almost unlimited, the different styles that can be classified as a horror film. Horror is like butter- it's good on everything. And as an actor I really appreciate being able to perform so many different styles of film. It has been a great challenge and also so fun to do.
But the down side to this genre is that too many films take the easy way out. Personally I appreciate a film that has a unique story and well developed characters. That is what interests me the most. But a lot of horror films just depend on the effects to get through the story and don't really worry about if the audience is going to care about these characters or what happens. Now there is a certain place for that but and some people just want a crazy gore-fest at times, but because many are exploitive and rely on really bad acting, horror films as a whole often are put in a lower class of film in the public's mind. I think that is unfair. Just like in any group there are really intriguing and well done ones and also really poor attempts at film making. But in general…just make it interesting. Find a new twist or way inventive way of telling the story. Otherwise, I wonder why your bothering to tell it again in the first place.
With a background like yours, it is understandable why you would tend to feel opinionated, being well-versed in Shakespeare’s work, but, weren’t some scenes in his work easily perceived as “horrific”?
Well I don't know if I am as opinionated as much as I have a lot of experience and know a lot about what I do and am really not a novice with stars in her eyes. That being said, it is awesome that you mentioned this. I have always say that there is a lot that is similar between a Shakespeare play and horror film. Both are often very heightened emotionally and deal with very tragic consequences. I do think my acting training in Shakespeare has made me a better actress in general, but specifically a better actress for the horror genera. The freedom in Shakespeare to be "big" meaning to take the emotions you are encountering to the fullest and not just keep them subtle like the acting of most films, has given me experience to express the multiple dimensions of each emotion. I have had practice riding emotions out to the limit and once you go there, it is always an easier task to pull it back……. I think I sometimes have some difficulty with that. Ha ha. But if as an actor you never get to play with the emotions to the fullest you might be missing something in your work. The horror genre in general not only allows for but often asks for "big" emotions and extremes in people’s reactions since the characters are put into such extreme situations. As with a Shakespearean play, the stakes are high and therefore a lot of intensity has to be present in the reaction to the situation.
Did you pick the horror genre specifically, or did you just sort of fall into it by accident?
I am an actor. I studied all types of films and theatre. I love drama as much as comedy and all in-between. I just happened to get cast in a film called "Horror" as one of my first film roles. From there when I would apply for all jobs, I got called back more often for horror films since I had that on my resume. It just kind of snowballed from there by meeting people on set who do horror films and getting called in for more horror films because I have done them. But I will say that being part of this genre has allowed me to build up a name for myself that I am not sure I would have accomplished as quickly as if I did this one comedy here or another indie film there. The horror fans really follow the films and really want to know more about you and what you’re doing. If they like your work they will continue to look for it and support it. I love them for that.
Why is it you think that the film industry in general seems to be dominated by the male gender?
I do wonder that. I remember thinking on this exact subject when I was following the series "Project Green light" If you remember the one where they were making that horror film. Well in one of the first episodes I remember a scene where there were like 5 executive producers, all men, in a room smoking and drinking and interview the candidates. It just seemed like such a boys club and not that they appeared to be trying to exclude women in general but you know right away that a woman would most likely be at a disadvantage in that situation. Not that she couldn't drink or smoke with them or whatever, but it just was not easy to have a conversation in the same way with the opposite gender. But I am not really sure why that is. I know it started at a time where men were the business people so the best women could do was be one of the actors, but now the world has supposedly opened up more for women. Maybe not as much as we would like to think, but often in the arts women are on a more equal footing with men and the men dealing in the arts tend to be more open to all kinds of differences. But I am not sure. I totally support women being a bigger force in the film industry. This is why I have done some producing and am working on a few scripts that I am in development with. I think women have so many stories to tell in a unique perspective and that voice may not always be the loudest but it can be just as important.
Have you ever felt yourself to be exploited in a film without realizing it at the time that is was the director’s intention to do so all along?
Wow! That would be so horrible, intolerable, and unprofessional. I have heard of that happening, but I have never experienced that. I am very clear with my boundaries and I think maybe that clarity upfront will either prevent them from casting me from the get go if that is their intent, or they know what I will or won't do before hand. When there is an intense scene in a film, one that places the character in a compromising position, I get clarity from the director on how he expects to shoot it and what I will or won't do. If they are professionals they will have no problem tell you how they will shoot the scene and clarifying what it calls for. If they are hiding something, well then it might be a different story.
Will there always be a place for the “nude female victim” in horror films? Why is nudity and sex seem so prevalent in horror films? That’s so Friday the 13th-ish.
I think that seems to be part of the genre, it is so ingrained in the formula. But I also think that things have been evened out a bit. There seems to be almost as much exploitation of men as women especially in the torture type films. Which in a weirdly backwards way, I appreciate. Ha ha. No but seriously, I was not into horror growing up because even though I was too young to have the words for it, I instinctively felt that so many of the films were very misogynistic. That never appealed to me and still doesn't. I like films with a strong female lead that can take care of business. And at this point, I have made a career choice not to do nudity in at least low budget horror films just for that reason. I know … Boo!!! But it is just something that I never got into acting to do, and as a performer who wants to do all types of films and not only horror, I felt it was a clear way to keep myself from falling into being stereotyped as only a horror actor. And to be honest I have lost some roles because of this, but also, the roles that I am being asked to play are very powerful and strong women and I do think that the fact that I don't do nudity has added to that.
That being said, I think horror subjects often deal with our deepest fears and desires. So sex and nudity are such a basic form of interest, so deep in our brains that it automatically brings reactions. Often times the nudity and sex are just for shock or titalation value and again that is also why horror can get a bad name. And for the longest time the most avid fans of horror have been young males and now let’s be honest… what are they interested in???
I think it’s obvious. Would you classify yourself as an introvert or an extrovert?
I would say that I am very much an introvert that is able to function very well as an extrovert when necessary and/or has latent extroverted tendencies.
Do you have a flair for the dramatic? You seem to.
Who?? Me??? What ever made you think that?? Ha ha. Yes. I am always drawn to big and bold and extremes. It interests me and sometime I don't know how to do things if it is not in a big way. But the funny thing is that in my personal life, I like as little drama as possible. I like a secure and comforting environment where I can organize my thoughts and impressions without too much influence of the outside world. But I do have all this passion and emotion that I have to get out, so I am so thankful to have a safe place in a character to put all my energies. Otherwise I might just end up crazy myself like one of my characters!!! Maybe that is why I relate so well! :)
Any new films coming up you’d like to tell us about?
Yes, the ones that have most recently been released are titled Braincell, Sculpture, Psycho Holocaust- all available on amazon. So far in 2012 the films Gallery of Fear and Geek War should be available. And I am currently towards the end of post production of a film called I Heart U.
It is a film that my production co. RaineY DaZe Creations produced along with C.R. productions. I also co-created the story and starred in the film. It was a great experience to have my hand in every part of the production from creation, to on set, to editing. I will soon be experiencing the crazy process of distribution. But I have learned so much about the process of filmmaking during this adventure and I am so proud of the work I did and everyone involved did.
It is a very awesome Dark, horror, comedy. It centers around a married couple who appear to be living the perfect suburban dream. However, each is bored in the marriage and life that they have created, so they revert back to their old habits of serial killing. Neither one knows about their partner's secret life and they unknowingly start to fall for the other one through the news articles that have been written about their alter ego. It really came together and looks so good and is very entertaining.
Any good words of advice for the “aspiring Scream Queen”?
I think it's good to know what you want. If you want to be a Scream Queen in horror movies and have no further aspirations then that, then all you have to do is look good naked and have a convincing scream and fear face. If you want to be an actress who also does horror movies as a Scream Queen, then take classes, learn your craft. Read a lot of literature and psychology to understand classic characters and motivations. Never feel you have to take a role or do anything you don't want just to further your career. Cuz chances are if you are doing something you don't want it won't lead to any place in your career you want to be. And make us scream too!!!!
Please also direct people to my website www.rainebrown.com and my face book http://www.facebook.com/pages/Raine-Brown/200385190029588
Will do!
Roy Thinnes
Roy was born April 6, 1938 in Chicago, Illinois. During his formative years, Roy had a desire to become a doctor or football player - or, if one wants to believe his early press releases, both. He started in show business at a radio station, where he did everything: engineering, DJ shows, news and dramatizations. That led to an interest in acting in general. When he left the Army he went to New York and then to California, where he started working in episodes of TV shows. Having made his professional acting debut as a teen-aged firebug in a 1957 pilot for the never-sold TV series "Chicago 212", Thinnes spent several lean years "between engagements," working as a hotel clerk, vitamin salesman and copy boy to Chicago columnist Irv Kupcinet.
His first regular TV work was as Phil Brewer on the daytime soap opera "General Hospital" (1963); during this period, the young actor became the television equivalent of a matinée idol, sparking a barrage of protest mail when he briefly left GH in pursuit of other acting jobs. Aggressively campaigning for the starring role of Ben Quick on the 1965 weekly TV version of the 1958 film "The Long, Hot Summer" (1965), Thinnes won the part, as well as a whole new crop of adoring female fans. While "Summer" was unsuccessful, Thinnes enjoyed a longer run as David Vincent on the Fugitive-like sci-fi series "The Invaders" (1967). The Invaders also spawned a comic book series in 1967, which ran for 1 year (4 issues) and is a hot collectible, often going for up to a hundred dollars each on the auction circuit. The Invaders TV show property is currently owned by Paramount/CBS-TV and fans have avidly written them requesting a legal DVD release of the series’ 43 episodes. The Invaders ran from Jan. 10, 1967 (as a mid-season replacement for two failed comedies) to March 26, 1968 on ABC-TV.
Success with the Invaders in 1967 led to marriage to first wife Lynn Loring, who acted with him in the show as well as in the movie Doppelgänger (1969) [aka Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun]; she is now a CBS film executive. They parted in 1984. Though he'd occasionally show up in such theatrical features as The Hindenburg (1975), Airport 1975 (1974) and Blue Bayou (1990) (TV), Thinnes has remained essentially a TV star. Among his post-Invaders TV-series roles was Dr. James Whitman on "The Psychiatrist" (1971), Capt (and later Major) Holms on "From Here to Eternity" (1980), Nick Hogan on "Falcon Crest" (1981) (who, in 1983, married Victoria Gioberti [Jamie Rose] in a highly-rated ceremony), and the dual role of Roger Collins and Reverend Trask in the 1991 prime-time revival of "Dark Shadows" (1991).
Roy's more recent appearances on the "The X Files" (1993) put him back in the forefront. He appeared in two episodes in the 1990s. He revived his role as the enigmatic alien Jeremiah Smith, a turnabout role Chris Carter renewed for Roy in the February 25, 2001 episode (#8.14) of The X-Files, called "This Can't Be Happening."
Roy continues to appear in Television and theatrical films, most recently in Undone, Spectropia and Leadcatcher, as well as a guest starring role in “Conviction” (2006). He has been a frequent guest star on the various incarnations of “Law & Order”. Roy has a background in stage as well, appearing in many plays, both as an actor and director. He is also known as an avid graphic artist, with gallery showings in Texas, California and other areas over the past few years.
I understand you originally had the desire to become either a football player of a doctor. Why did you eventually decide on a career in acting?
Well, football was a possible means to get into a desirable college. As for becoming a doctor, I had neither the credentials nor the real desire. At the age of sixteen I had already committed to being an actor and had begun to work as a union pro.
Did your stint on General Hospital transform you into something of a leading man or matinee idol?
Sort of. Looked what happened; Dr. Brewer, the first leading role in a series, which to a lasting run of fifty-five years total and a gratifying profession as a lead actor. I couldn’t have asked for more.
How did the role of David Vincent come about?
My stint on GH led to another great series role, Ben Quick, in The Long Hot Summer, which was also on ABC network. That led to Quinn Martin, the producer, to cast me for yet another ABC series, The Invaders. Mr. Martin had previously cast me in several episodes of his other series, 12 O’Clock High, The Untouchables, The FBI and The Fugitive. They were all hits based on his quality trademark, great writing.
Considering the fact that series like The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits were considered by a lot of critics to be “past tense” by 1967, why do you think The Invaders was so successful during it’s short run?
Actually, I tend to disagree. The Twilight Zone and Outer Limits did not become There have been reruns and revivals. However, The Invaders after it’s original run became past tense in the United States. France and several other European countries continued rerunning the show. It became and still is a cult classic in France, where they have big screen representations in movie theatres and the audience speaks the dialogue. It’s amazing to see.
In the US, there have been only a few, daytime, sporadic reruns on the SciFi Channel {Misspelled, I know, but the new channel title is reminiscent of a certain venereal condition and they now present mainly low budget horror}.
Was it Quinn Martin’s intent for the character of David Vincent to so closely resemble The Fugitive’s Richard Kimble?
Well, Martin likened both shows as both being case studies in paranoia, Kimble and Vincent both have personal, life-changing knowledge but cannot convince humanity of these truths.
Did your stint on that show prompt an interest for you in the UFO phenomenon and the paranormal in general?
Of course the subject of The Invaders brought about an immense public response containing fascinating, some quite chilling tales of phenomena observed and or experienced. Sightings, abductions, investigations, hypnotic regressions, many of a nightmarish quality. Many who came forward to divulge their personal experiences had finally found in David Vincent a sympathetic figure with whom to identify.
Tell me about your stint on The X-Files. Was it a lot of fun? I think you brought a whole “presence” to the show.
The X-Files fun? Not exactly.
Why?
Gratifying to that character, having previously committed to a traumatized character who pursued an earth-threatening race, to then years later commit to playing a character of this same race who is sympathetic to humanity. Chris Carter is a great writer/producer, but the Jeremiah Smith character and story were created solely by David Duchovny. David personally made this possible. I am thankful for David’s conviction and Carter’s supervision and approval. I don’t have much to say about thinking outside the box; a script well written includes characters with clear intent and that is what an actor commits to.
Fair enough. Back to The Invaders for a moment. What do your children think of the show? Do they enjoy it just as much if not more than the newer science fiction?
My children and I don’t really discuss the show, really. They have seen some of them, I know. I am just pleased to be treated by them with the greatest respect.
How about you? Do you think it still stands on it’s own against the newer series?
It stands on it’s own when compared to any other. Cowboys and Aliens could have been much more provocative, dramatic, and even profound had the aliens been Arian humanoids and not monsters.
Before you go, if you had a chance to land a role or a cameo in a remake of The Invaders, would you consider it?
Well, a great script/character and a proper offer might tempt me back to the genre, but as things are right now, retirement is good. But we’ll see…I hear Johnny Depp is good at such roles.
What are you up to right now? Still busy with your artwork?
I stay in touch with family, read a lot. Paint when inspired. I am presently reading the new autobiography of Mark Twain, and also painting his portrait. It’s like having a brilliant houseguest.
Roy was born April 6, 1938 in Chicago, Illinois. During his formative years, Roy had a desire to become a doctor or football player - or, if one wants to believe his early press releases, both. He started in show business at a radio station, where he did everything: engineering, DJ shows, news and dramatizations. That led to an interest in acting in general. When he left the Army he went to New York and then to California, where he started working in episodes of TV shows. Having made his professional acting debut as a teen-aged firebug in a 1957 pilot for the never-sold TV series "Chicago 212", Thinnes spent several lean years "between engagements," working as a hotel clerk, vitamin salesman and copy boy to Chicago columnist Irv Kupcinet.
His first regular TV work was as Phil Brewer on the daytime soap opera "General Hospital" (1963); during this period, the young actor became the television equivalent of a matinée idol, sparking a barrage of protest mail when he briefly left GH in pursuit of other acting jobs. Aggressively campaigning for the starring role of Ben Quick on the 1965 weekly TV version of the 1958 film "The Long, Hot Summer" (1965), Thinnes won the part, as well as a whole new crop of adoring female fans. While "Summer" was unsuccessful, Thinnes enjoyed a longer run as David Vincent on the Fugitive-like sci-fi series "The Invaders" (1967). The Invaders also spawned a comic book series in 1967, which ran for 1 year (4 issues) and is a hot collectible, often going for up to a hundred dollars each on the auction circuit. The Invaders TV show property is currently owned by Paramount/CBS-TV and fans have avidly written them requesting a legal DVD release of the series’ 43 episodes. The Invaders ran from Jan. 10, 1967 (as a mid-season replacement for two failed comedies) to March 26, 1968 on ABC-TV.
Success with the Invaders in 1967 led to marriage to first wife Lynn Loring, who acted with him in the show as well as in the movie Doppelgänger (1969) [aka Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun]; she is now a CBS film executive. They parted in 1984. Though he'd occasionally show up in such theatrical features as The Hindenburg (1975), Airport 1975 (1974) and Blue Bayou (1990) (TV), Thinnes has remained essentially a TV star. Among his post-Invaders TV-series roles was Dr. James Whitman on "The Psychiatrist" (1971), Capt (and later Major) Holms on "From Here to Eternity" (1980), Nick Hogan on "Falcon Crest" (1981) (who, in 1983, married Victoria Gioberti [Jamie Rose] in a highly-rated ceremony), and the dual role of Roger Collins and Reverend Trask in the 1991 prime-time revival of "Dark Shadows" (1991).
Roy's more recent appearances on the "The X Files" (1993) put him back in the forefront. He appeared in two episodes in the 1990s. He revived his role as the enigmatic alien Jeremiah Smith, a turnabout role Chris Carter renewed for Roy in the February 25, 2001 episode (#8.14) of The X-Files, called "This Can't Be Happening."
Roy continues to appear in Television and theatrical films, most recently in Undone, Spectropia and Leadcatcher, as well as a guest starring role in “Conviction” (2006). He has been a frequent guest star on the various incarnations of “Law & Order”. Roy has a background in stage as well, appearing in many plays, both as an actor and director. He is also known as an avid graphic artist, with gallery showings in Texas, California and other areas over the past few years.
I understand you originally had the desire to become either a football player of a doctor. Why did you eventually decide on a career in acting?
Well, football was a possible means to get into a desirable college. As for becoming a doctor, I had neither the credentials nor the real desire. At the age of sixteen I had already committed to being an actor and had begun to work as a union pro.
Did your stint on General Hospital transform you into something of a leading man or matinee idol?
Sort of. Looked what happened; Dr. Brewer, the first leading role in a series, which to a lasting run of fifty-five years total and a gratifying profession as a lead actor. I couldn’t have asked for more.
How did the role of David Vincent come about?
My stint on GH led to another great series role, Ben Quick, in The Long Hot Summer, which was also on ABC network. That led to Quinn Martin, the producer, to cast me for yet another ABC series, The Invaders. Mr. Martin had previously cast me in several episodes of his other series, 12 O’Clock High, The Untouchables, The FBI and The Fugitive. They were all hits based on his quality trademark, great writing.
Considering the fact that series like The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits were considered by a lot of critics to be “past tense” by 1967, why do you think The Invaders was so successful during it’s short run?
Actually, I tend to disagree. The Twilight Zone and Outer Limits did not become There have been reruns and revivals. However, The Invaders after it’s original run became past tense in the United States. France and several other European countries continued rerunning the show. It became and still is a cult classic in France, where they have big screen representations in movie theatres and the audience speaks the dialogue. It’s amazing to see.
In the US, there have been only a few, daytime, sporadic reruns on the SciFi Channel {Misspelled, I know, but the new channel title is reminiscent of a certain venereal condition and they now present mainly low budget horror}.
Was it Quinn Martin’s intent for the character of David Vincent to so closely resemble The Fugitive’s Richard Kimble?
Well, Martin likened both shows as both being case studies in paranoia, Kimble and Vincent both have personal, life-changing knowledge but cannot convince humanity of these truths.
Did your stint on that show prompt an interest for you in the UFO phenomenon and the paranormal in general?
Of course the subject of The Invaders brought about an immense public response containing fascinating, some quite chilling tales of phenomena observed and or experienced. Sightings, abductions, investigations, hypnotic regressions, many of a nightmarish quality. Many who came forward to divulge their personal experiences had finally found in David Vincent a sympathetic figure with whom to identify.
Tell me about your stint on The X-Files. Was it a lot of fun? I think you brought a whole “presence” to the show.
The X-Files fun? Not exactly.
Why?
Gratifying to that character, having previously committed to a traumatized character who pursued an earth-threatening race, to then years later commit to playing a character of this same race who is sympathetic to humanity. Chris Carter is a great writer/producer, but the Jeremiah Smith character and story were created solely by David Duchovny. David personally made this possible. I am thankful for David’s conviction and Carter’s supervision and approval. I don’t have much to say about thinking outside the box; a script well written includes characters with clear intent and that is what an actor commits to.
Fair enough. Back to The Invaders for a moment. What do your children think of the show? Do they enjoy it just as much if not more than the newer science fiction?
My children and I don’t really discuss the show, really. They have seen some of them, I know. I am just pleased to be treated by them with the greatest respect.
How about you? Do you think it still stands on it’s own against the newer series?
It stands on it’s own when compared to any other. Cowboys and Aliens could have been much more provocative, dramatic, and even profound had the aliens been Arian humanoids and not monsters.
Before you go, if you had a chance to land a role or a cameo in a remake of The Invaders, would you consider it?
Well, a great script/character and a proper offer might tempt me back to the genre, but as things are right now, retirement is good. But we’ll see…I hear Johnny Depp is good at such roles.
What are you up to right now? Still busy with your artwork?
I stay in touch with family, read a lot. Paint when inspired. I am presently reading the new autobiography of Mark Twain, and also painting his portrait. It’s like having a brilliant houseguest.
Stephen Graham Jones
Stephen Graham Jones is the author of seven novels and two collections. His most recent books are It Came from Del Rio and The Ones That Got Away. Stephen’s been a Shirley Jackson Award finalist twice, a Bram Stoker Award finalist, a Black Quill Award finalist, an International Horror Guild finalist, and has won the Texas Institute of Letters Award for Fiction and been an NEA fellow in fiction. His short fiction has been in Cemetery Dance, Asimov’s, Weird Tales, and multiple best-of-the-year compilations, textbooks, and anthologies. Born in West Texas, PhD’d at Florida State, Stephen now lives in Colorado, where he teaches in the MFA program at the University of Colorado at Boulder. More at demontheory.net.
I’ve never interviewed a Native American who was into Philip K. Dick’s work before. Which story or book was it that grabbed your attention?
I think I started into PKD with the VALIS trilogy. This would have been 1994, maybe into 1995. I just had my undergrad degree, was starting my master’s, and was hanging out in Denton, Texas with this guy Keith Irwin, and Keith was always reading cool stuff. I remember one day I stopped by his apartment and he had PKD and CS Lewis all spread out like a project, and he told me about each of them, not so much trying to sell me on them as just that he was infected with their magic. And—I guess I’d read Electric Sheep by then, yeah, but it’s still far from my favorite PKD (truthtold, I’m not in love with the movie either). Anyway, Keith telling me about this Vast Active Living Intelligence System, it was like when I was twelve and my friend Brett Watkins was telling me about The Terminator, acting it out and everything, so that I pretty much had seen the movie by the time he was done. I was hooked. On terminators and on science fiction and horror, and, then, what, twelve years later? On Horselover Fat as well. My only regret’s that I went out and found about all of his books, just inhaled them in the space of a few months or so, meaning now, and not counting my various concussions and intubations, there’s nothing left to read of his for the first time. I did the same with Vonnegut, too, and regret that. However, by the time I found Nabokov, I’d learned, so I’m spacing him out, trying to just hit a book every two or three years. Haven’t even read Ada yet, I mean. Trying to make his work last.
Any writers in particular you’d cite as a mentor?
That’s tricky. I feel like Louis L’Amour saved my life, I guess. At a time—I was ten, twelve—when I didn’t really have a steady dad around, or had too many dads to add up to one complete dad, my uncle started letting me ‘check out’ three books at a time from his hall closet. And it was floor to ceiling with these mass-market paperbacks, all L’Amour and Mack Bolan and Robert Jordan’s Conan. And, while Jordan fired my imagination in a way that really changed it, it was L’Amour, Indian hater that I hear he kind of was, who always provided a kind of, I don’t know—a role model. He’d give me these heroes who always did the right thing, who could always figure the problem out. They were who I tried to shape myself after, and they still are. I just want to save the day, keep the ranch from getting sold or burned, all that. Used to I’d run out into the woods of the Air Force Academy at night with a L’Amour and read the first page by match, then the back of that page, slinging my hand from the heat, then tear that page out, light it, use it to read the next couple, and get through the book like that. But Mack Bolan, he never really did it for me. I suspect the fantasy life he was feeding was more adult, more my uncle’s. Or, there weren’t giant snake gods and sorcerers, anyway, like Conan had. I didn’t even read Howard’s Conan till probably ten years later—I share a birthday with him, too, and am also from West Texas. And am so happy to have a story coming out in Weird Tales, where Conan was born. Feels like I’m completing something, at least in my head. Or for my head.
Anyway, kept reading science fiction and horror and thrillers and different kinds of westerns—lots of them are just erotica in the Old West (there was this one series called “Longarm,” I think)—then wound up in grad school for writing, and there my philosophy training had somehow prepped me for Pynchon and Barth and Barthelme, that whole crowd. Even though I was there explicitly to steal good sentences, smuggle them back to the genres I loved. But it’s so easy to get distracted. The only way to give yourself to Gravity’s Rainbow, I mean, it’s all the way. And Giles Goat-Boy, and Sot-Weed Factor . . . I so wish I could read those all over again for the first time. I never got a taste for all the realism I kept getting fed, though. I don’t know--Ironweed, remember that one? Hated it, and everything like it. I dug the canonical stuff, Grapes and Moby Dick and Dostoyevsky, all that, still do, and I fell head over heels for Don Quixote, but I never could understand the appeal of Flaubert, say. I mean, I could get the amount of effort that had gone into crafting this, and I could see how shiny and neat and perfect the product was, but I would always be left wondering Why go to all this trouble just to take me deeper into a world I’m already neck-deep in as-is? Why not go to Middle Earth instead, where it’s kind of cool? I started reading Delaney around this time, I’d guess. He seemed to be somebody who could do whatever he wanted. And I didn’t know Gibson then, or Stephenson, and was of course reading Barker when I could, and King, and Straub—Straub’s like Delaney, just has this vast intellect, and’s doing the important work of focusing all that in horror—and Thomas Harris was a model, too. Still is, even if he kind of started losing the thread.
However—you’ve noticed there’s no Indian writers yet, right? Right. Coming through school, I was always so sick of getting my mailbox (this is pre-email) stuffed every day with multi-ethnic this, join our club that. I just wanted to be a dude who happened to be Indian, not somebody who wore it like a badge, or, like a membership card to get in special places. I remember in American Novels class, the prof called me out one day about Cuckoo’s Nest, said, since I was Indian, I’d have some special insight into Chief Broom. I got a B in that class, and hated every page of it (though I still love Cuckoo’s, consider it one of the best literary accidents of the twentieth century). Anyway, at the time I didn’t even know of any Indian writers to be reading. The first, for me? Alexie. This was, I don’t know, 1996, I’d guess. Whenever his “This is How You Say Phoenix, Arizona” made Best American. I remember reading it and thinking that all he’d done was doll up some guys in braids and make them talk like the reservation. Which—I don’t recall if they really had braids or not. But it really felt like there was nothing making them specifically “Indian,” though maybe I should say all I knew about Indians in stories I’d learned from L’Amour, via Shalako and Joe Mack and the like. Steely-eyed dudes who could have been played by Paul Newman, yeah. Anyway, about a year later, I realized that what Alexie was doing was exactly what needed doing: Indians don’t need to be exotic or special on the page, and they especially don’t need to be shaped by our (my own as well) preconceptions of them. The fiction not only can look like something we might have hit in that American Novels course, but maybe it should. Or maybe it should have that option. Anyway, this was all just after my last master’s workshop, where I’d finally said out-loud/on the page what was the case in all my stories: the protagonist was part Indian. And somehow that changed the way everybody read it. Not in a way I completely dug, either. Their read was kind of reverent or something, I guess. Like this fiction was sacred material. And it wasn’t, not even close. It was just me writing about me, like always, and trying to disguise it up as best I could. That I’d said the guy was Indian was more of a slip than anything. All my characters were some Indian. It was the only way I knew to do it.
So, yeah, I came into writing and reading American Indian fiction in a stupid way, I suspect. And of course I found a prof who led me through all the critical issues, most of which I kind of wish I’d never known about—target audience? responsibility? fidelity to source material?—but then, working through all that, I finally found the one person who changed it all for me: Gerald Vizenor. The guy’s magic. He’s ridiculously brilliant, but at the same he’s just so talented, and maybe more important than all of that, even, he really cares about what he’s doing. I was about through with Pynchon by the time I found him—or, once I found him, I didn’t need Pynchon anymore. Vizenor. He’s definitely my main influence. My first novel, Fast Red Road, it was originally dedicated to him, but then the publisher sent it to him for a blurb, and he gave one, so I had to sneak back in, undo that dedication, as it might make his blurb look bought. And, since Vizenor—still talking influences—I think my other would Joe R. Lansdale. He’s on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from Vizenor, but each of them, they’ve got that PKD thing, where what they write, they mean it, it’s sincere, it’s honest, it’s the only truth they know. I so respect that Vizenor’s willing to fight the whole world with words and stories, and I’m so impressed with how Lansdale’s carved out his own genre, pretty much, and’s just telling the stories he wants to tell, and in ways he wants to tell them. I’d like to be both of them.
Most of your book titles sound as though they are related to Native American culture. Do you believe in the old adage, ‘’Write what you know’’?
I don’t know about believing in it, but I do think it’s unavoidable. Or, it’s all I can finally do. Really, I think it’s all any of us can do. We can only render emotional landscapes we’ve ourselves walked across at one time or another. No matter if the story’s on Mars or in 1066—setting and content and genre are always meaningless. What matters, it’s how true you can make it feel. And the only way to make it true’s to mine your own life. And then pretend you just made it all up.
How would you describe your writing style? Native American horror? Western scifi? A little of both?
Man, I don’t know. I’m all over the map, pretty much. Fast Red Road and Bird is Gone, people always want to call them literary, which means ‘no-selling,’ or postmodern, which is of course a way of dismissing them, but they’re each using the science fiction I grew up with, too, so I could guess you could make that argument. Really, though, there’s a moment in On the Road, where Cassidy and Kerouac are in one part of town, then something happens and they kind of just ‘step across’ to another party in another part of town, and, the way it’s written, it’s like they’re Crumb cartoon characters, taking this huge comical step from one house to another, miles away, trying to balance their drinks the whole way, and I think that’s what I was going for in Bird and Fast. And probably with everything, to different degrees. With All the Beautiful Sinners and Seven Spanish Angels, though, those are just pure thriller. One of my favorite genres. I love working in those tight confines of convention. You dance better in a small, taped-off part of the room than you can given the whole floor. Bleed Into Me, then, that’s just some stories, I guess, most of them mostly true, and The Ones That Got Away’s the same trick, just as filtered through horror. Each feels intensely autobiographical to me, though; there’s no space to hide in short stories. But then The Long Trial of Nolan Dugatti, it’s autobio as well, it just also involves some science fiction conceits (giant time-traveling caterpillar, invisible ninjas, etc). Then Ledfeather, I guess you could cast that as science fiction—‘moose as time-travel machine’—but it’s just a story, for me, no particular genre. It’s set on the rez, sure, and’s Indian, but not because I set out to write an “Indian” story. It’s just what you were saying, I guess, that ‘write what you know.’ I didn’t grow up there or anything, haven’t even spent that much time there, but once when I was up there I kind of lifted the corner of a piece of carpet, and there was this story waiting there for me. So I told it. And it’s definitely one of the times I got lucky, I think. And It Came from Del Rio: it’s got zombies and chupacabras and moon radiation, sure, but for me it’s just a crime story, as augmented by horror and science fiction. Demon Theory, though: that’s very consciously horror. It’s my love letter to the genre that’s kept me alive this long, and it’s so autobiographical, too. I feel naked each time I know somebody’s reading it.
So—I guess I can’t describe my writing style. I mean, I’ve got a somewhat-fake memoir coming out that doesn’t fit anywhere, I’ve got a novel about a kid working the window at a drive-through urinal, I’ve got a second-person noir, I’ve got a zombie wrestlers novel, I’ve got this Del Rio sequel that’s pure Robert Rodriguez territory . . . I don’t know. I just write what interests me, I guess. It’s why I’ve been with, what? Seven, eight, nine publishers? I suck at doing the same thing time after time, refuse to just stamp stuff out. What I want to do’s to let the story get told in the way it needs to tell itself, be that horror or science fiction or whatever. Though I guess I will say I’m still completely bored by most ‘realist’ stuff. I need some story hooks to keep me reading, please. Either that or just blisteringly-hot writing. But that kind of writing’s hard to maintain across three hundred pages. Give me the books with werewolves in them instead, please. They’re safer. And I can get ideas from them.
I see you pen novels and collections. Are you partial to one form as opposed to the other?
No, not partial, though a novel can make more money, and money definitely matters, and saying it doesn’t matter’s just a defense mechanism for having no readers, claiming ‘Art,’ all that. I’ll never stop writing stories, though. Stories just happen. Novels, though, with a novel somebody’s agreeing to let you have their brain for three or four days, and to do with whatever you want, so long as you do it well. Stories are great, and can change you, but still, at most you’ve got somebody’s brain in your hand for an hour, maybe two, and it’s hard to sneak out of the room with a brain like that, sew something in for them to find later in the week, when they turn the lights off.
What was the title of your first short story? The plotline?
“The Gift,” I think it was called. Wrote it when . . . well. I was sitting in World Lit I, a big auditorium of a classroom, and all I’d brought was an empty spiral notebook and a pen. So I was sitting in back just doing nothing, filling the margin with scribbles, I don’t know—definitely not learning any World Lit (I still don’t know it)—when two police officers stepped in, asked me to come with them. This not being all that new a thing to me in those years, I kind of shrugged, leaned out the door after them, half-wondering if I was going to get to finish this semester or not, now. But they weren’t there for something I’d done over the weekend. They were there because Lubbock, where I was, had the best burn unit for that part of Texas, and one of my uncles had just been burned so, so badly, airlifted there, and I was the only family in town. How they knew this, I have no idea, and never asked. He wasn’t telling them anyway. So, they took me to the hospital, ditched me in the waiting room, and I waited there for three days for my uncle to live or die, living out of the candy machine and the bathroom, and all I had was that spiral, that pen. And I got kind of involved with this other family camped there, with this giant of a dad who kept rising from his ICU bed, fighting everybody, tearing at the lines. He’d been trick or treating with his kid, had stopped to change a flat, then got smacked by a drunk dude weaving down the road, got smacked and dragged for forever. He died after a day or two of it, but, I don’t know, this is kind of stupid I guess, I was already writing about him by then, so he didn’t, really. And I was doing it because I wanted somebody to find that drunk driver and kill him thirteen times, but to make it real, I had to look at it from the dad’s angle, and from the kid’s, and I didn’t have any tools then, didn’t know tense or scene or anything, so it was just all voice, and I ended up finally writing a story about a guy and girl—this is the plot you were asking for—who . . . wait. This story, “The Gift,” it opens with a guy walking through the snow, and walking, and walking (“trudging” was the word I thought was pretty original, I think), and it’s cutting back and forth to this girl in a hospital room. They’ve been in a wreck, a bad one, and the guy’s dead, but he’s not, he’s out there trying to fight his way back through to her. And finally he does, he traces something to her on the outside of the window of her hospital room, and she smiles, understands, and I think that’s probably the basic shape of about everything I write, still.
How do your students react to your work? They think it’s cool to have a well-respected writer as a teacher?
The ones that know, they dig it, and it’s cool that they read my stuff—or, it makes me hold myself to a higher standard. I can’t just say Do as I say, I have to live what I say. It’s not always easy, but it’s good. And the students each semester, they’re so smart, so with-it. I learn so much from them.
I couldn’t help but notice you are a big Elvis fan. Has the thought ever crossed your mind to pen a fictional piece about the King? You never know, it might make for a good ghost story…
Yeah, Bubba Ho-Tep him up. I don’t know. I do love Elvis, and grew up listening to him, and still listen to him, and get all kind of twitchy or happy when I hear his stuff, but, too, just talking to my mom, I know that the emotional connection her whole generation had to him, that’s something I could never pull off on the page, I don’t think. Not saying I could do it with Michael Jackson or Madonna either, though—the Elvises of my growing up—but that this thing of believing heart and soul in a song or a brand of music or a band or a singer, that’s something I can’t make sense of in the right way. Or, the closest I can come, and this is pretty close, I think, it’s the way I believe in the Crüe, or Bob Seger or John Mellencamp or Springsteen, but as much as I like them and know what they’re saying’s true, still, I’m always talking to people who get this far-off look in their eyes when they’re talking about Radiohead, or Jay-Z, or Nine Inch Nails, or Nirvana, or the Dead, and that’s something I just don’t have access to. I always look off into that distance for what they’re seeing. I mean, Earl Thomas Conley, he spoke to my heart, and with my own words, and I used to follow Waylon all around Texas, and my answering machine was stacked with worries about me when he finally died, but nevertheless, I suspect I’m missing out on some fundamental connection a lot of people are able to make with music, and, by extension, musicians. So, sure, I could write a story about Elvis when he was sixteen, some dude at the shop teaching him how to work the tall shifter for a transaxle truck or something, but . . . it’s like how every pre-Contact Indian story, there’s always that dramatic irony of “1492’s coming,” isn’t there? The ‘past’ of this story, even though it never mentions Columbus, it’s always colored by him. It’d be the same with Elvis, I think, at least for me. Learning how to drive that truck, it could never be separated from all he would become, all he would do. So I’d be better off just writing about some no-name kid learning to drive a truck. Then I could make it real in the way it needs to be real, I think. Which is to say I could port myself into that story. Because I’ve ground through those gears, looking for the one that’ll take me forward, into life.
Your book Flushboy sounds…interesting. Any clues to the plot without giving away any spoilers?
It’s this kid who’s dad’s kind of conscripted him to work in this drive-through urinal he’s trying to get going. And it’s going, just for the novelty. Who wouldn’t want to pee into a banktube while sitting their own car, right? But this kid, he’s having to handle the warm urine of his classmates, of preachers, or teachers, and it’s kind of giving him certain hesitations about life in general. However—and I wrote Flushboy specifically because my wife told me I never write any love stories—there is this one girl out there on the drag, making the rounds, kind of looking at him through his glass. Or not. And, if he can just get a smile from her, then the rest of the world, it won’t matter at all. It’s a story about being sixteen, I mean. At least what sixteen was like for me. You work jobs you hate, your parents don’t have clue one about you, you’re getting beat up in various ways every day, but all of that goes away the moment a girl takes your hand in hers, doesn’t it? And kind of bites her lip, looks away. I told my wife all my stories were already love stories, that that’s all I know how to write, really—check Ledfeather, say—but evidently stories with body counts don’t get to count as love stories.
Where are you headed from here? Are you going to chill out for a while, or keep working on a new book?
Always and forever working. Feel like I’m a drag on the world if I’m not writing. I get all nervous and know that I’m going to be hiding corpses under my storage unit if I don’t get a story down the right way. And also, the page is the only place I can ever make things make sense. Fiction’s the good place to be, for me. Got four, five books coming out, and likely more. Maybe I’ve finally even got enough padding—I’m thinking in the Bag of Bones sense, of having manuscripts in the drawer, giving you time to do other stuff—that I can finally write this one novel I’m half-scared to write. Not because it’s that Pet Sematary kind of scary, but because I’m so afraid of messing up. It’s about werewolves, I’m saying, and the way some people feel about Radiohead or Nirvana, that’s how I feel about werewolves, except they couldn’t possibly feel the same way about a band as I feel about werewolves. I believe in them completely, and would never do anything to mess them up, and would instantly wish myself dead if I ever did. But maybe if I take my time, and pay all the right kinds of attention, I can get them down on the page in the right way. And then into everybody’s heads.
stephen graham jones
boulder, co, 1 july 2011
I’ve never interviewed a Native American who was into Philip K. Dick’s work before. Which story or book was it that grabbed your attention?
I think I started into PKD with the VALIS trilogy. This would have been 1994, maybe into 1995. I just had my undergrad degree, was starting my master’s, and was hanging out in Denton, Texas with this guy Keith Irwin, and Keith was always reading cool stuff. I remember one day I stopped by his apartment and he had PKD and CS Lewis all spread out like a project, and he told me about each of them, not so much trying to sell me on them as just that he was infected with their magic. And—I guess I’d read Electric Sheep by then, yeah, but it’s still far from my favorite PKD (truthtold, I’m not in love with the movie either). Anyway, Keith telling me about this Vast Active Living Intelligence System, it was like when I was twelve and my friend Brett Watkins was telling me about The Terminator, acting it out and everything, so that I pretty much had seen the movie by the time he was done. I was hooked. On terminators and on science fiction and horror, and, then, what, twelve years later? On Horselover Fat as well. My only regret’s that I went out and found about all of his books, just inhaled them in the space of a few months or so, meaning now, and not counting my various concussions and intubations, there’s nothing left to read of his for the first time. I did the same with Vonnegut, too, and regret that. However, by the time I found Nabokov, I’d learned, so I’m spacing him out, trying to just hit a book every two or three years. Haven’t even read Ada yet, I mean. Trying to make his work last.
Any writers in particular you’d cite as a mentor?
That’s tricky. I feel like Louis L’Amour saved my life, I guess. At a time—I was ten, twelve—when I didn’t really have a steady dad around, or had too many dads to add up to one complete dad, my uncle started letting me ‘check out’ three books at a time from his hall closet. And it was floor to ceiling with these mass-market paperbacks, all L’Amour and Mack Bolan and Robert Jordan’s Conan. And, while Jordan fired my imagination in a way that really changed it, it was L’Amour, Indian hater that I hear he kind of was, who always provided a kind of, I don’t know—a role model. He’d give me these heroes who always did the right thing, who could always figure the problem out. They were who I tried to shape myself after, and they still are. I just want to save the day, keep the ranch from getting sold or burned, all that. Used to I’d run out into the woods of the Air Force Academy at night with a L’Amour and read the first page by match, then the back of that page, slinging my hand from the heat, then tear that page out, light it, use it to read the next couple, and get through the book like that. But Mack Bolan, he never really did it for me. I suspect the fantasy life he was feeding was more adult, more my uncle’s. Or, there weren’t giant snake gods and sorcerers, anyway, like Conan had. I didn’t even read Howard’s Conan till probably ten years later—I share a birthday with him, too, and am also from West Texas. And am so happy to have a story coming out in Weird Tales, where Conan was born. Feels like I’m completing something, at least in my head. Or for my head.
Anyway, kept reading science fiction and horror and thrillers and different kinds of westerns—lots of them are just erotica in the Old West (there was this one series called “Longarm,” I think)—then wound up in grad school for writing, and there my philosophy training had somehow prepped me for Pynchon and Barth and Barthelme, that whole crowd. Even though I was there explicitly to steal good sentences, smuggle them back to the genres I loved. But it’s so easy to get distracted. The only way to give yourself to Gravity’s Rainbow, I mean, it’s all the way. And Giles Goat-Boy, and Sot-Weed Factor . . . I so wish I could read those all over again for the first time. I never got a taste for all the realism I kept getting fed, though. I don’t know--Ironweed, remember that one? Hated it, and everything like it. I dug the canonical stuff, Grapes and Moby Dick and Dostoyevsky, all that, still do, and I fell head over heels for Don Quixote, but I never could understand the appeal of Flaubert, say. I mean, I could get the amount of effort that had gone into crafting this, and I could see how shiny and neat and perfect the product was, but I would always be left wondering Why go to all this trouble just to take me deeper into a world I’m already neck-deep in as-is? Why not go to Middle Earth instead, where it’s kind of cool? I started reading Delaney around this time, I’d guess. He seemed to be somebody who could do whatever he wanted. And I didn’t know Gibson then, or Stephenson, and was of course reading Barker when I could, and King, and Straub—Straub’s like Delaney, just has this vast intellect, and’s doing the important work of focusing all that in horror—and Thomas Harris was a model, too. Still is, even if he kind of started losing the thread.
However—you’ve noticed there’s no Indian writers yet, right? Right. Coming through school, I was always so sick of getting my mailbox (this is pre-email) stuffed every day with multi-ethnic this, join our club that. I just wanted to be a dude who happened to be Indian, not somebody who wore it like a badge, or, like a membership card to get in special places. I remember in American Novels class, the prof called me out one day about Cuckoo’s Nest, said, since I was Indian, I’d have some special insight into Chief Broom. I got a B in that class, and hated every page of it (though I still love Cuckoo’s, consider it one of the best literary accidents of the twentieth century). Anyway, at the time I didn’t even know of any Indian writers to be reading. The first, for me? Alexie. This was, I don’t know, 1996, I’d guess. Whenever his “This is How You Say Phoenix, Arizona” made Best American. I remember reading it and thinking that all he’d done was doll up some guys in braids and make them talk like the reservation. Which—I don’t recall if they really had braids or not. But it really felt like there was nothing making them specifically “Indian,” though maybe I should say all I knew about Indians in stories I’d learned from L’Amour, via Shalako and Joe Mack and the like. Steely-eyed dudes who could have been played by Paul Newman, yeah. Anyway, about a year later, I realized that what Alexie was doing was exactly what needed doing: Indians don’t need to be exotic or special on the page, and they especially don’t need to be shaped by our (my own as well) preconceptions of them. The fiction not only can look like something we might have hit in that American Novels course, but maybe it should. Or maybe it should have that option. Anyway, this was all just after my last master’s workshop, where I’d finally said out-loud/on the page what was the case in all my stories: the protagonist was part Indian. And somehow that changed the way everybody read it. Not in a way I completely dug, either. Their read was kind of reverent or something, I guess. Like this fiction was sacred material. And it wasn’t, not even close. It was just me writing about me, like always, and trying to disguise it up as best I could. That I’d said the guy was Indian was more of a slip than anything. All my characters were some Indian. It was the only way I knew to do it.
So, yeah, I came into writing and reading American Indian fiction in a stupid way, I suspect. And of course I found a prof who led me through all the critical issues, most of which I kind of wish I’d never known about—target audience? responsibility? fidelity to source material?—but then, working through all that, I finally found the one person who changed it all for me: Gerald Vizenor. The guy’s magic. He’s ridiculously brilliant, but at the same he’s just so talented, and maybe more important than all of that, even, he really cares about what he’s doing. I was about through with Pynchon by the time I found him—or, once I found him, I didn’t need Pynchon anymore. Vizenor. He’s definitely my main influence. My first novel, Fast Red Road, it was originally dedicated to him, but then the publisher sent it to him for a blurb, and he gave one, so I had to sneak back in, undo that dedication, as it might make his blurb look bought. And, since Vizenor—still talking influences—I think my other would Joe R. Lansdale. He’s on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from Vizenor, but each of them, they’ve got that PKD thing, where what they write, they mean it, it’s sincere, it’s honest, it’s the only truth they know. I so respect that Vizenor’s willing to fight the whole world with words and stories, and I’m so impressed with how Lansdale’s carved out his own genre, pretty much, and’s just telling the stories he wants to tell, and in ways he wants to tell them. I’d like to be both of them.
Most of your book titles sound as though they are related to Native American culture. Do you believe in the old adage, ‘’Write what you know’’?
I don’t know about believing in it, but I do think it’s unavoidable. Or, it’s all I can finally do. Really, I think it’s all any of us can do. We can only render emotional landscapes we’ve ourselves walked across at one time or another. No matter if the story’s on Mars or in 1066—setting and content and genre are always meaningless. What matters, it’s how true you can make it feel. And the only way to make it true’s to mine your own life. And then pretend you just made it all up.
How would you describe your writing style? Native American horror? Western scifi? A little of both?
Man, I don’t know. I’m all over the map, pretty much. Fast Red Road and Bird is Gone, people always want to call them literary, which means ‘no-selling,’ or postmodern, which is of course a way of dismissing them, but they’re each using the science fiction I grew up with, too, so I could guess you could make that argument. Really, though, there’s a moment in On the Road, where Cassidy and Kerouac are in one part of town, then something happens and they kind of just ‘step across’ to another party in another part of town, and, the way it’s written, it’s like they’re Crumb cartoon characters, taking this huge comical step from one house to another, miles away, trying to balance their drinks the whole way, and I think that’s what I was going for in Bird and Fast. And probably with everything, to different degrees. With All the Beautiful Sinners and Seven Spanish Angels, though, those are just pure thriller. One of my favorite genres. I love working in those tight confines of convention. You dance better in a small, taped-off part of the room than you can given the whole floor. Bleed Into Me, then, that’s just some stories, I guess, most of them mostly true, and The Ones That Got Away’s the same trick, just as filtered through horror. Each feels intensely autobiographical to me, though; there’s no space to hide in short stories. But then The Long Trial of Nolan Dugatti, it’s autobio as well, it just also involves some science fiction conceits (giant time-traveling caterpillar, invisible ninjas, etc). Then Ledfeather, I guess you could cast that as science fiction—‘moose as time-travel machine’—but it’s just a story, for me, no particular genre. It’s set on the rez, sure, and’s Indian, but not because I set out to write an “Indian” story. It’s just what you were saying, I guess, that ‘write what you know.’ I didn’t grow up there or anything, haven’t even spent that much time there, but once when I was up there I kind of lifted the corner of a piece of carpet, and there was this story waiting there for me. So I told it. And it’s definitely one of the times I got lucky, I think. And It Came from Del Rio: it’s got zombies and chupacabras and moon radiation, sure, but for me it’s just a crime story, as augmented by horror and science fiction. Demon Theory, though: that’s very consciously horror. It’s my love letter to the genre that’s kept me alive this long, and it’s so autobiographical, too. I feel naked each time I know somebody’s reading it.
So—I guess I can’t describe my writing style. I mean, I’ve got a somewhat-fake memoir coming out that doesn’t fit anywhere, I’ve got a novel about a kid working the window at a drive-through urinal, I’ve got a second-person noir, I’ve got a zombie wrestlers novel, I’ve got this Del Rio sequel that’s pure Robert Rodriguez territory . . . I don’t know. I just write what interests me, I guess. It’s why I’ve been with, what? Seven, eight, nine publishers? I suck at doing the same thing time after time, refuse to just stamp stuff out. What I want to do’s to let the story get told in the way it needs to tell itself, be that horror or science fiction or whatever. Though I guess I will say I’m still completely bored by most ‘realist’ stuff. I need some story hooks to keep me reading, please. Either that or just blisteringly-hot writing. But that kind of writing’s hard to maintain across three hundred pages. Give me the books with werewolves in them instead, please. They’re safer. And I can get ideas from them.
I see you pen novels and collections. Are you partial to one form as opposed to the other?
No, not partial, though a novel can make more money, and money definitely matters, and saying it doesn’t matter’s just a defense mechanism for having no readers, claiming ‘Art,’ all that. I’ll never stop writing stories, though. Stories just happen. Novels, though, with a novel somebody’s agreeing to let you have their brain for three or four days, and to do with whatever you want, so long as you do it well. Stories are great, and can change you, but still, at most you’ve got somebody’s brain in your hand for an hour, maybe two, and it’s hard to sneak out of the room with a brain like that, sew something in for them to find later in the week, when they turn the lights off.
What was the title of your first short story? The plotline?
“The Gift,” I think it was called. Wrote it when . . . well. I was sitting in World Lit I, a big auditorium of a classroom, and all I’d brought was an empty spiral notebook and a pen. So I was sitting in back just doing nothing, filling the margin with scribbles, I don’t know—definitely not learning any World Lit (I still don’t know it)—when two police officers stepped in, asked me to come with them. This not being all that new a thing to me in those years, I kind of shrugged, leaned out the door after them, half-wondering if I was going to get to finish this semester or not, now. But they weren’t there for something I’d done over the weekend. They were there because Lubbock, where I was, had the best burn unit for that part of Texas, and one of my uncles had just been burned so, so badly, airlifted there, and I was the only family in town. How they knew this, I have no idea, and never asked. He wasn’t telling them anyway. So, they took me to the hospital, ditched me in the waiting room, and I waited there for three days for my uncle to live or die, living out of the candy machine and the bathroom, and all I had was that spiral, that pen. And I got kind of involved with this other family camped there, with this giant of a dad who kept rising from his ICU bed, fighting everybody, tearing at the lines. He’d been trick or treating with his kid, had stopped to change a flat, then got smacked by a drunk dude weaving down the road, got smacked and dragged for forever. He died after a day or two of it, but, I don’t know, this is kind of stupid I guess, I was already writing about him by then, so he didn’t, really. And I was doing it because I wanted somebody to find that drunk driver and kill him thirteen times, but to make it real, I had to look at it from the dad’s angle, and from the kid’s, and I didn’t have any tools then, didn’t know tense or scene or anything, so it was just all voice, and I ended up finally writing a story about a guy and girl—this is the plot you were asking for—who . . . wait. This story, “The Gift,” it opens with a guy walking through the snow, and walking, and walking (“trudging” was the word I thought was pretty original, I think), and it’s cutting back and forth to this girl in a hospital room. They’ve been in a wreck, a bad one, and the guy’s dead, but he’s not, he’s out there trying to fight his way back through to her. And finally he does, he traces something to her on the outside of the window of her hospital room, and she smiles, understands, and I think that’s probably the basic shape of about everything I write, still.
How do your students react to your work? They think it’s cool to have a well-respected writer as a teacher?
The ones that know, they dig it, and it’s cool that they read my stuff—or, it makes me hold myself to a higher standard. I can’t just say Do as I say, I have to live what I say. It’s not always easy, but it’s good. And the students each semester, they’re so smart, so with-it. I learn so much from them.
I couldn’t help but notice you are a big Elvis fan. Has the thought ever crossed your mind to pen a fictional piece about the King? You never know, it might make for a good ghost story…
Yeah, Bubba Ho-Tep him up. I don’t know. I do love Elvis, and grew up listening to him, and still listen to him, and get all kind of twitchy or happy when I hear his stuff, but, too, just talking to my mom, I know that the emotional connection her whole generation had to him, that’s something I could never pull off on the page, I don’t think. Not saying I could do it with Michael Jackson or Madonna either, though—the Elvises of my growing up—but that this thing of believing heart and soul in a song or a brand of music or a band or a singer, that’s something I can’t make sense of in the right way. Or, the closest I can come, and this is pretty close, I think, it’s the way I believe in the Crüe, or Bob Seger or John Mellencamp or Springsteen, but as much as I like them and know what they’re saying’s true, still, I’m always talking to people who get this far-off look in their eyes when they’re talking about Radiohead, or Jay-Z, or Nine Inch Nails, or Nirvana, or the Dead, and that’s something I just don’t have access to. I always look off into that distance for what they’re seeing. I mean, Earl Thomas Conley, he spoke to my heart, and with my own words, and I used to follow Waylon all around Texas, and my answering machine was stacked with worries about me when he finally died, but nevertheless, I suspect I’m missing out on some fundamental connection a lot of people are able to make with music, and, by extension, musicians. So, sure, I could write a story about Elvis when he was sixteen, some dude at the shop teaching him how to work the tall shifter for a transaxle truck or something, but . . . it’s like how every pre-Contact Indian story, there’s always that dramatic irony of “1492’s coming,” isn’t there? The ‘past’ of this story, even though it never mentions Columbus, it’s always colored by him. It’d be the same with Elvis, I think, at least for me. Learning how to drive that truck, it could never be separated from all he would become, all he would do. So I’d be better off just writing about some no-name kid learning to drive a truck. Then I could make it real in the way it needs to be real, I think. Which is to say I could port myself into that story. Because I’ve ground through those gears, looking for the one that’ll take me forward, into life.
Your book Flushboy sounds…interesting. Any clues to the plot without giving away any spoilers?
It’s this kid who’s dad’s kind of conscripted him to work in this drive-through urinal he’s trying to get going. And it’s going, just for the novelty. Who wouldn’t want to pee into a banktube while sitting their own car, right? But this kid, he’s having to handle the warm urine of his classmates, of preachers, or teachers, and it’s kind of giving him certain hesitations about life in general. However—and I wrote Flushboy specifically because my wife told me I never write any love stories—there is this one girl out there on the drag, making the rounds, kind of looking at him through his glass. Or not. And, if he can just get a smile from her, then the rest of the world, it won’t matter at all. It’s a story about being sixteen, I mean. At least what sixteen was like for me. You work jobs you hate, your parents don’t have clue one about you, you’re getting beat up in various ways every day, but all of that goes away the moment a girl takes your hand in hers, doesn’t it? And kind of bites her lip, looks away. I told my wife all my stories were already love stories, that that’s all I know how to write, really—check Ledfeather, say—but evidently stories with body counts don’t get to count as love stories.
Where are you headed from here? Are you going to chill out for a while, or keep working on a new book?
Always and forever working. Feel like I’m a drag on the world if I’m not writing. I get all nervous and know that I’m going to be hiding corpses under my storage unit if I don’t get a story down the right way. And also, the page is the only place I can ever make things make sense. Fiction’s the good place to be, for me. Got four, five books coming out, and likely more. Maybe I’ve finally even got enough padding—I’m thinking in the Bag of Bones sense, of having manuscripts in the drawer, giving you time to do other stuff—that I can finally write this one novel I’m half-scared to write. Not because it’s that Pet Sematary kind of scary, but because I’m so afraid of messing up. It’s about werewolves, I’m saying, and the way some people feel about Radiohead or Nirvana, that’s how I feel about werewolves, except they couldn’t possibly feel the same way about a band as I feel about werewolves. I believe in them completely, and would never do anything to mess them up, and would instantly wish myself dead if I ever did. But maybe if I take my time, and pay all the right kinds of attention, I can get them down on the page in the right way. And then into everybody’s heads.
stephen graham jones
boulder, co, 1 july 2011
Jack Ketchum
{Photo by Steve Thornton}
Jack Ketchum's first novel, Off Season, prompted the Village Voice to publicly scold its publisher in print for publishing violent pornography. He personally disagrees but is perfectly happy to let you decide for yourself. His short story The Box won a 1994 Bram Stoker Award from the HWA, his story Gone won again in 2000 -- and in 2003 he won Stokers for both best collection for Peaceable Kingdom and best long fiction for Closing Time. He has written twelve novels, arguably thirteen, five of which have been filmed -- The Girl Next Door, Red, The Lost, Offspring and The Woman, written with Lucky McKee. His stories are collected in The Exit at Toledo Blade Boulevard, Peaceable Kingdom, Closing Time and Other Stories, and Sleep Disorder, with Edward Lee. His horror-western novella The Crossings was cited by Stephen King in his speech at the 2003 National Book Awards. He has been elected Grand Master for the 20011 World Horror Convention.
I've recently had the pleasure of watching the film version of your book, The Girl Next Door, as well as having read the book. Did you have any direct involvement of the film? The production?
I did, yes, but minimal. I saw the script early on and made a few suggestions. But only a few. Because basically I was blown away by the fact that Nutman and Farrands had gotten the book down so well and so faithfully. Then, because they were shooting in New York and New Jersey, and I live in New York and grew up in New Jersey -- which is where the book was set -- it was easy and even useful for me to see a lot of the shooting. The producer and director both wanted me there. I took them to the actual street to look at the two houses which were models for the ones in the book. I even got to yell "CUT!' once -- which I think startled even me. They were shooting a scene with some kids and an ice cream truck and one of the kids orders a "Chocolate Cow." Well, the real thing is called a Brown Cow, and hell, I wanted them to get it right!
What was it about that case that grabbed your interest enough to pen a book about it?
There were so many themes and stories there for a writer, all interwoven, that the question should be, how could I resist them? Small town secrets -- what may well hide beneath the facade of everyday normalcy. Women who hate their own sex, and hate themselves. Being given permission to commit the worst atrocities. Herd mentality. The seductiveness of evil. The gradual descent into madness. The power adults have over kids and how they sometimes misuse it. The confusion of sex and love -- especially as it manifests itself in youth and adolescents. First loves. And, because Meg takes all this abuse to spare her little sister, the nature of real heroism. I could go on...
What is it - if anything - that you find really scary? Other than living in Obama-land, of course.
Obama-land isn't nearly as scary as GW Bush-land was. When Stephen King said in Entertainment Weekly that I was probably the scariest man in America I thanked him and said, "but I think the scariest man in America lives across the Potomac." What really scares me is the kind of homo sapiens subspecies who looks like a man, talks like a man, walks like a man and has absolutely no idea what it's like to actually be one. Who has no sense of compassion, no empathy, no concern for anyone but himself. And who sees no necessity for any of these things. I wrote a novella a while back called WEED SPECIES. People as kudzu, an invasive blight on the planet. Their range is huge, from the heartland to Wall Street. They'll take your life or your life savings without blinking an eye. They're the ones who scare me.
Well, them and snakes.
There are a lot of writers - and fans of yours - that really admire you for your down-to-earth attitude and openness. Did you come from a very humble background?
Lower middle class I'd say. But my parents both lived through the Great Depression first and World War 2second and to a great extent that shaped them. They were strivers. My mom saved balls of tin-foil, balls of string, containers of every shape and size. She used to tell a story about the Depression, about finally scraping up the money to buy my dad a steak, then cooking it only go find out it had gone bad, and crying her heart out over that. My dad was from Newark, not exactly the most prosperous place in the U.S.A. and bought our house and his store on the G.I. Bill. The store was tiny by today's standards but it had a soda fountain and a grill and a dozen flavors of ice cream. We made sandwiches, brewed coffee, sold milk and magazines and comics and aspirin and birthday cards and candy -- all manner of stuff. And between my mother's penny-pinching and my dad's big personality, that store put me through college. The first-ever on either side of the family.
Would you say that dedication to one's craft - a real dedication - is one of the major keys to success in writing fiction?
I asked Robert Bloch something similar once. He said, "if you don't have to write, don't." Yes, you've got to learn your craft inside and out but you've also got to love it. You've got to love reading and read voraciously and read all kinds of things and you've got to try writing all kinds of things -- and you need to really enjoy it. Or else don't do it. Even the failures should be fun to try. I used to write the occasional song. Let's just say that as a song-writer I was a very good horse wrangler. But it was still fun trying. Writing's high-level play. You're still building sandcastles and forts like you did as a kid but they get more and more sophisticated as you learn more, "get more licks" as the musicians say. Only way to do that is read a lot and write a lot while you're doing it.
I noticed that Offspring had been made into a movie, but not Off Season. Why did a filmmaker choose to make the sequel fist?
The owners of the film rights to OFF SEASON have never made the movie. I'm out of touch with them so I have no idea why. But OFFSPRING was a stand-alone book, and they had no claim over that, so we made the movie.
What's this about you and Lucky McKee working together? I really enjoyed his directorial contribution to the Masters of Horror series.
Lucky's great. An enormously talented, knowledgeable guy -- see MAY if you don't believe me -- who also happens to be one of the most amiable guys I know. He optioned THE LOST for his buddy Chris Sivertson to direct and RED for himself to direct and we hit it off right away. For reasons I won't go into here he didn't get to finish RED but that didn't stop him. He also optioned my filmscript for THE PASSENGER, which we hope to do next, and of course we wrote both the novel and script of THE WOMAN together. I was a little leery of that at first since I'd never collaborated with anybody on anything longer than a short story. But that lasted about fifteen minutes into the process. It was a terrific experience, I think, for both of us. I'd do it again in a minute.
Before you go, tell me: How dos it feel to be known as ''one of the nicest guys in horror fiction''?
It makes me want to smash something. No -- when somebody gets all warm and fuzzy with me I usually want to get all warm and fuzzy back. The extent to which I can do that depends on whether or not you fuck with me. I'm an ex-literary agent. Believe me, you do not want to fuck with me.
No problem, I hadn't planned to! Thanks for the interview.
Jack Ketchum's first novel, Off Season, prompted the Village Voice to publicly scold its publisher in print for publishing violent pornography. He personally disagrees but is perfectly happy to let you decide for yourself. His short story The Box won a 1994 Bram Stoker Award from the HWA, his story Gone won again in 2000 -- and in 2003 he won Stokers for both best collection for Peaceable Kingdom and best long fiction for Closing Time. He has written twelve novels, arguably thirteen, five of which have been filmed -- The Girl Next Door, Red, The Lost, Offspring and The Woman, written with Lucky McKee. His stories are collected in The Exit at Toledo Blade Boulevard, Peaceable Kingdom, Closing Time and Other Stories, and Sleep Disorder, with Edward Lee. His horror-western novella The Crossings was cited by Stephen King in his speech at the 2003 National Book Awards. He has been elected Grand Master for the 20011 World Horror Convention.
I've recently had the pleasure of watching the film version of your book, The Girl Next Door, as well as having read the book. Did you have any direct involvement of the film? The production?
I did, yes, but minimal. I saw the script early on and made a few suggestions. But only a few. Because basically I was blown away by the fact that Nutman and Farrands had gotten the book down so well and so faithfully. Then, because they were shooting in New York and New Jersey, and I live in New York and grew up in New Jersey -- which is where the book was set -- it was easy and even useful for me to see a lot of the shooting. The producer and director both wanted me there. I took them to the actual street to look at the two houses which were models for the ones in the book. I even got to yell "CUT!' once -- which I think startled even me. They were shooting a scene with some kids and an ice cream truck and one of the kids orders a "Chocolate Cow." Well, the real thing is called a Brown Cow, and hell, I wanted them to get it right!
What was it about that case that grabbed your interest enough to pen a book about it?
There were so many themes and stories there for a writer, all interwoven, that the question should be, how could I resist them? Small town secrets -- what may well hide beneath the facade of everyday normalcy. Women who hate their own sex, and hate themselves. Being given permission to commit the worst atrocities. Herd mentality. The seductiveness of evil. The gradual descent into madness. The power adults have over kids and how they sometimes misuse it. The confusion of sex and love -- especially as it manifests itself in youth and adolescents. First loves. And, because Meg takes all this abuse to spare her little sister, the nature of real heroism. I could go on...
What is it - if anything - that you find really scary? Other than living in Obama-land, of course.
Obama-land isn't nearly as scary as GW Bush-land was. When Stephen King said in Entertainment Weekly that I was probably the scariest man in America I thanked him and said, "but I think the scariest man in America lives across the Potomac." What really scares me is the kind of homo sapiens subspecies who looks like a man, talks like a man, walks like a man and has absolutely no idea what it's like to actually be one. Who has no sense of compassion, no empathy, no concern for anyone but himself. And who sees no necessity for any of these things. I wrote a novella a while back called WEED SPECIES. People as kudzu, an invasive blight on the planet. Their range is huge, from the heartland to Wall Street. They'll take your life or your life savings without blinking an eye. They're the ones who scare me.
Well, them and snakes.
There are a lot of writers - and fans of yours - that really admire you for your down-to-earth attitude and openness. Did you come from a very humble background?
Lower middle class I'd say. But my parents both lived through the Great Depression first and World War 2second and to a great extent that shaped them. They were strivers. My mom saved balls of tin-foil, balls of string, containers of every shape and size. She used to tell a story about the Depression, about finally scraping up the money to buy my dad a steak, then cooking it only go find out it had gone bad, and crying her heart out over that. My dad was from Newark, not exactly the most prosperous place in the U.S.A. and bought our house and his store on the G.I. Bill. The store was tiny by today's standards but it had a soda fountain and a grill and a dozen flavors of ice cream. We made sandwiches, brewed coffee, sold milk and magazines and comics and aspirin and birthday cards and candy -- all manner of stuff. And between my mother's penny-pinching and my dad's big personality, that store put me through college. The first-ever on either side of the family.
Would you say that dedication to one's craft - a real dedication - is one of the major keys to success in writing fiction?
I asked Robert Bloch something similar once. He said, "if you don't have to write, don't." Yes, you've got to learn your craft inside and out but you've also got to love it. You've got to love reading and read voraciously and read all kinds of things and you've got to try writing all kinds of things -- and you need to really enjoy it. Or else don't do it. Even the failures should be fun to try. I used to write the occasional song. Let's just say that as a song-writer I was a very good horse wrangler. But it was still fun trying. Writing's high-level play. You're still building sandcastles and forts like you did as a kid but they get more and more sophisticated as you learn more, "get more licks" as the musicians say. Only way to do that is read a lot and write a lot while you're doing it.
I noticed that Offspring had been made into a movie, but not Off Season. Why did a filmmaker choose to make the sequel fist?
The owners of the film rights to OFF SEASON have never made the movie. I'm out of touch with them so I have no idea why. But OFFSPRING was a stand-alone book, and they had no claim over that, so we made the movie.
What's this about you and Lucky McKee working together? I really enjoyed his directorial contribution to the Masters of Horror series.
Lucky's great. An enormously talented, knowledgeable guy -- see MAY if you don't believe me -- who also happens to be one of the most amiable guys I know. He optioned THE LOST for his buddy Chris Sivertson to direct and RED for himself to direct and we hit it off right away. For reasons I won't go into here he didn't get to finish RED but that didn't stop him. He also optioned my filmscript for THE PASSENGER, which we hope to do next, and of course we wrote both the novel and script of THE WOMAN together. I was a little leery of that at first since I'd never collaborated with anybody on anything longer than a short story. But that lasted about fifteen minutes into the process. It was a terrific experience, I think, for both of us. I'd do it again in a minute.
Before you go, tell me: How dos it feel to be known as ''one of the nicest guys in horror fiction''?
It makes me want to smash something. No -- when somebody gets all warm and fuzzy with me I usually want to get all warm and fuzzy back. The extent to which I can do that depends on whether or not you fuck with me. I'm an ex-literary agent. Believe me, you do not want to fuck with me.
No problem, I hadn't planned to! Thanks for the interview.
